server recommendations?

Charlie Charbonneau · July 26, 2010, 01:45:53 PM

scenario: 1 xp box housing @vantage since server died and 1 Poweredge sc1420 win 2003 SBS housing, AD/Domain, Exchange and TAM (the works)

Finally I'm in the market for a new server! My original thought was to purchase a server with the intent of transfering AD/domain and TAM to the new server and leave exchange on the old server and transfer @vantage to the old server. While it works well, I don't like having Exchange & Tam on the same box and I know it's not recommended! But we do what we have to right? my question is, is this the right plan? I wanted to move TAM to the new box because of encroaching storage limits. but would it be better to just add more storage drive space to the current server and move Exchange & @vantage to the new server? Thoughts? Pros Cons? Currently looking at at PE T410...

Bloody Jack Kidd · July 26, 2010, 02:16:04 PM

I would say, even with a PE 410T, you could virtualize... but... unless your current OS is open licensed (not OEM), this suggestion may be more expensive.

I think might make the dc1420 AD, Fax and Exchange and make the new server File / Print.

How many Exchange users?

Oh - and make the old XP box a secondary DC if you can.

Charlie Charbonneau · July 26, 2010, 02:50:57 PM

Exchange is 28 users give or take. can't restrict send or receive, but have size limit warnings for all the good that does.

why not make the second server the secondary DC? instead of the xp box? would like to get rid of it!

Bloody Jack Kidd · July 26, 2010, 03:02:31 PM

Well, depends on which you consider the second server - in general, we try to leave DCs to that task alone, perhaps DC & Print but mostly a DC should just be doing Active Directory stuff (in theory).

Of course not everyone can afford to dedicate entire servers to being a DC, let alone 2. Maybe AD/DC, TAM and file/print on the 410T, Fax and Exchg on the 1420.

Charlie Charbonneau · July 26, 2010, 03:19:01 PM

Quote from: Rick Chisholm on July 26, 2010, 03:02:31 PM
Of course not everyone can afford to dedicate entire servers to being a DC, let alone 2. Maybe AD/DC, TAM and file/print on the 410T, Fax and Exchg on the 1420.

Yes unfortunately Don't have that luxury... could the exchange act as a secondary DC? It's currently the primary DC so I don't see why not...

Bloody Jack Kidd · July 26, 2010, 03:53:13 PM

you can do any combination you want, personally I would separate Exchg and DC

Bob · July 26, 2010, 04:07:56 PM

I'm replacing my server and virtualizing. PowerEdge T610, 16gb Memory, 2 L5520 Xeon Processors 2.26ghz 8M Cache, HT, 1066Mhz and 6 146GB 15K RPM Serial-Attach SCSI 3Gbps 3.5 hotplug HD, 875w PS, 1GB NIC, iDRAC6 Enterprise, Server 2008R2. More stuff obvious but that's the beef of it.

Still fine tuning.. I'll probably order sometime in August and deploy in Sept.

Bloody Jack Kidd · July 26, 2010, 04:32:33 PM

Quote from: Bob Connor on July 26, 2010, 04:07:56 PM

I'm replacing my server and virtualizing. PowerEdge T610, 16gb Memory, 2 L5520 Xeon Processors 2.26ghz 8M Cache, HT, 1066Mhz and 6 146GB 15K RPM Serial-Attach SCSI 3Gbps 3.5 hotplug HD, 875w PS, 1GB NIC, iDRAC6 Enterprise, Server 2008R2. More stuff obvious but that's the beef of it.

Still fine tuning.. I'll probably order sometime in August and deploy in Sept.

which virtual technology are you embracing for this?

Bob · July 26, 2010, 04:34:57 PM

Not sure yet.. Considering comments here as well as Steve Hart's opinion. Going to virtualize the Terminal Server for the new remote offices and perhaps a couple other roles.

Once we agree upon choice of app, I'll post back.

Charlie Charbonneau · July 26, 2010, 04:59:34 PM

can't say I'm too familiar with virtualization yet, but the PTB's are new, and it's quite a chunk of change we're looking at, so I'm trying to behave and not go all out!

stevenhart · July 29, 2010, 02:12:26 PM

Hey everyone, thought I'd chime in. For 28 users I'd suggest a T610 or T710. More options, faster processors, and more ability to scale in the future if needed. You can keep that SC1420 as your fax server and if you want, promote it as a Domain Controller. We've done that for a number of clients and it works fine.

I agree with Rick, it's ideal to have your Exchange and DC separated. Microsoft has this as a best practice (though they bend/break this rule with SBS). But with virtualization, it's just an extra $700 for a second server license that can run concurrently on that new Poweredge. I'd suggest a 2008 R2 Domain Controller also functioning as a print server and possibly file server. A second 2008 R2 for Exchange 2010 Standard (could also put your file storage here). The specs for Bob's new server will work, but given your higher user count I'd suggest bumping up the memory to 32 or 48GB.

SBS 2008 is also an option. It's easy to manage, but the core components are already old (2008 R2 is now out, as is Exchange 2010, so why buy 2008 R1 and Exchange 2007?). There is a bit of cost savings here so you may want to explore it as an option. That said, most of the SBS 2008 migrations we've done have been very problematic. Unless your existing environment is super pristine, you could be looking at lots of late nights on the phone with MS support.

Virtualization is cheap. In fact these days, it's free. When you buy a 2008 R2 server license, MS lets you use it twice - once as the Host operating system, and again as a Guest virtual machine. There are also flavors from Citrix (Xen), and VMware. I prefer the MS approach since the management of the server is more intuitive, as it's just Windows. The main concern is of course running a lot of key systems on a single server. To address this I'd suggest a really good backup regimen, and a same-day onsite warranty service from Dell. That way you've hedged your bets and a down server won't cripple you for more than a day.

Another option - if you're happy with your current server's setup, but the hardware is old, just get the new Poweredge and use a tool to virtualize your old server's OS. You can literally transplant it onto the new hardware, and figure out the software migration/upgrades at a later time.

Charlie Charbonneau · July 29, 2010, 02:28:08 PM

ok I'm all for splitting the DC and Exchange up, but have been told that if moving to a mixed 03/08 environment, to leave the DC on the 03 box and to use the 08 box as a file/print only.

stevenhart · July 29, 2010, 02:55:50 PM

Ok I re-read your original post and didn't pick up on the SBS 2003. Gotcha. Well, I'd personally recommend you get the new Poweredge server, but keep your SBS 2003 and relocate it to the new server (either as the physical operating system or as a guest virtual machine). Do you need Exchange 2010? If the current SBS 2003 was on new physical hardware, would it still be doing everything you need it to do?

I have a hard time suggesting to clients that they toss out their SBS 2003, unless there's specific functionality needed that they don't have. For example, some clients hit the 75GB cap in Exchange 2003 (within SBS) and need to grow, so a new version of Exchange server is needed.... Otherwise it's hard to justify upgrading just for upgrading's sake. I mean what will a new version of Windows Server or Exchange really do for your users? They'll still be using the same desktop software, doing the same tasks.

SBS's components can't be separated. You can always get a new server, make it a DC, and transfer TAM to it, but your SBS will always have to remain a DC and your Exchange server. Putting TAM on a separate server, other than your Exchange server, will not do much of anything for you. There are no technical reasons why TAM and Exchange shouldn't be on the same server. Applied's recommendation against this, in my opinion, is simply because they don't want to get pulled into a support scenario where you're having problems with TAM because of something else running on the same server.

Definitely go with a new server instead of adding storage - that SC1425 was under-sized for 28 users even when new, and it's now a dinosaur. You need the warranty of a new server which will entitle you to having a Dell tech onsite within 4 hours of an outage, replacement parts in hand. If anything pops inside of that SC1425, being that it's out of warranty, it could take you a week to get a replacement part produced. Too risky to continue with it. It could be re-used as a Fax server, but since you currently have SBS on it, you'll need to format it, purchase and install a copy of Windows 2003 Standard (non-SBS), then migrate over the fax setup from your current XP box. If you're going to move that mountain, might make sense to spend an extra $1200 and get an entry level Dell server for Fax Advantage. Otherwise when that SC1425 dies you're going to have to repeat the mountain-moving of a process all over again.

Charlie Charbonneau · July 29, 2010, 03:12:18 PM

Will exchange and @vantage play nicely together on the same box? We don't email incoming faxes, we print them to the network, and then the receptionist emails from there. I can't see any reason to format it if I'm keeping exchange and the DC on it.

stevenhart · July 29, 2010, 03:20:24 PM

Exchange and @vantage could be on the same box, but @vantage is really best left dedicated on its own server, maybe promoted as a domain controller.

The scenario I discussed of formatting the SC1425 and possibly using it as a future fax server would require that you move your existing SBS configuration from the SC1425 onto a new server, at which point you would have no choice but to format and reinstall Windows on the SC1425 (you can't have the SBS on both the SC1425 and the new server simultaneously). But again, that's a lot of work and you'd be better off just replacing the SC1425 with a new server.

You're welcome to call me if you'd like to chat about this over the phone - we could get further in a few minute phone call instead of doing all this typing! My number's 877-938-6888 x7113.