TAM ON WIN10

Started by Hans Manhave, January 29, 2020, 06:39:37 PM

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Hans Manhave

How does one install TAM on a Win10 machine?  I was going to log into Appliedsystems.com but it is again necessary to change my password there.  So I came here.

I tried just g:\wintam\tamclient.exe /rr   but that tells me it cannot find ASUpdateBG.exe. 

I must have missed or forgotten something.  But what?
Fantasy is more important than knowledge, because knowledge has its boundaries - Albert Einstein

Mark

I don't remember having any issues.  Did you try with UAC off?
Mark Piontek, MBA
Director of Information Systems
BS in Information Systems Security

Ric

FWA did you run from command line? (Windows R)

G:\wintam\tamclient.exe /rr

I have a few other tweaks during the process as well
Ric Tucker
Manager of Information Systems
Past President, New Jersey Chapter

J A Mariano Agency
TAM 2020, 11users, Windows 2019 Server,
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit workstations
fax@vantage 9.0.5,
Acoustic guitar, drums, percussion
Chrome, Microsoft 365

Jeff Zylstra

Log in as an administrator if your user doesn't have admin rights.  Run as doesn't work here.  I also remember having to surf to the g:\wintam folder and then typing tamclient.exe /rr and also trying asupdate.exe /rr.  I don't remember which one worked, but I remember it being fickle.
"We hang the petty thieves, and appoint the great ones to public office"  -  Aesop

Mark

TamClient.exe replaced ASUpdate.exe at some version of TAM, I can't remember which.  2013 or something maybe.  Pretty sure ASUpdate still exists in some form, but TamClient is the install process now.

It's been 3 years or so since I did TAM, but I did have it running on Windows 10, or should I say "running" on Windows 10 for historical access for a while.  It wasn't hammered on, but it was used now and then.  I don't recall any issues.

Some things I've done in my TAM admin days was set file & folder permissions and registry permissions in Group Policy so that users did not have to have local admin rights.  I still do something like that today for Epic so users can install/update without needing admin rights, but it's a little different.

In order to figure it out, we'd need to look t all the errors at all the steps in the process and handle them one at a time.
Mark Piontek, MBA
Director of Information Systems
BS in Information Systems Security

Jeff Zylstra

I think I remember another of the steps I had to take.  I had to create an actual shortcut on the desktop, using the correct "start in" older and the putting the /rr in the extra criteria field.  It was a bunch of screwing around if I remember correctly.
"We hang the petty thieves, and appoint the great ones to public office"  -  Aesop

Jeff Golas

Quote from: Mark on February 06, 2020, 09:27:48 AM
I still do something like that today for Epic so users can install/update without needing admin rights, but it's a little different.

In order to figure it out, we'd need to look t all the errors at all the steps in the process and handle them one at a time.

Install is prob needed, but updating shouldn't, it just dumps screen files into the folder really.
Jeff Golas
Johnson, Kendall & Johnson, Inc. :: Newtown, PA
Epic Online w/CSR24
http://www.jkj.com

Hans Manhave

After many days, I finally got a machine, Windows 10, Office 2010 (!), and appear to have been able, after a full day, to get Windows 10 updated to the latest and greatest, completed an outdated Office 2010 install, join a 2008R2 domain, and appear to have TAM 2014 running fine.  Amazing.

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions.  I implemented all of them and so therefore this was a good day.

Fantasy is more important than knowledge, because knowledge has its boundaries - Albert Einstein

Ric

And the crowd goes wild!!!

8)
Ric Tucker
Manager of Information Systems
Past President, New Jersey Chapter

J A Mariano Agency
TAM 2020, 11users, Windows 2019 Server,
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit workstations
fax@vantage 9.0.5,
Acoustic guitar, drums, percussion
Chrome, Microsoft 365

Hans Manhave

Quote from: Ric on July 22, 2020, 02:18:57 PM
And the crowd goes wild!!!

8)

Glad I created some excitement.  I figure the audience to be cardboard cut-outs and piped in music from computer games.   :)

I do have additional questions about Win10:
1. Why does Win10Pro include so many non-business items?  (XBox, all kinds of games, People, Photos, Paint3D, Groove Music, etc)
2. In Windows Server 2008R2, how does one install a Win10 policy management addition and can those take out the under #1 mentioned type of non-business additions?

Fantasy is more important than knowledge, because knowledge has its boundaries - Albert Einstein

Ric

FWA: I'll take a stab at #1   $$$$
Ric Tucker
Manager of Information Systems
Past President, New Jersey Chapter

J A Mariano Agency
TAM 2020, 11users, Windows 2019 Server,
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit workstations
fax@vantage 9.0.5,
Acoustic guitar, drums, percussion
Chrome, Microsoft 365

Jeff Golas

+1 on the $$$. Basically "Pro" is now kinda like Windows 10 home+somebizstuff, and Enterprise is considered what Pro used to be. Nice that they pulled that rug, huh?

Outside of having an enterprise license (which you can bake into an Office365 license if you want now), there are scripts to pull all the crap, but some admins have given up on actual removal, as some of the utilities (like calculator) are now considered MS "Apps" as opposed to executables, and the scripts pull things they shouldn't, or butcher the computer worse.

Its not a good thing, but when I set up PCs I j ust buzz through and remove everything from the start menu. Inevitably it comes back on version upgrades (every year or so) but whatever.
Jeff Golas
Johnson, Kendall & Johnson, Inc. :: Newtown, PA
Epic Online w/CSR24
http://www.jkj.com

Hans Manhave

Well, that explains it then.  $$$$ and the rest.  I guess I'm getting old, because I every time i encounter this kind of stuff I wonder which youth was employed to design that.  I always hope for improvement, not time wasting but economizing time.  All we need is side tracking ADD & ADHD people or creating same. 

I guess I was supposed to install a 32bit Office instead of a 64bit?  64bit appears to be working fine, just that it also appears to be getting interrupted by other pre-installed Office365 or some other Office version.  It insists asking about signing in on some office system which we do not care to do.

Also, how does one install an ADMX module.  I don't have one yet, but somewhere I saw I would want one for domain/directory management with Server2008R2?


Quote from: Jeff Golas on July 23, 2020, 02:03:14 PM
+1 on the $$$. Basically "Pro" is now kinda like Windows 10 home+somebizstuff, and Enterprise is considered what Pro used to be. Nice that they pulled that rug, huh?

Outside of having an enterprise license (which you can bake into an Office365 license if you want now), there are scripts to pull all the crap, but some admins have given up on actual removal, as some of the utilities (like calculator) are now considered MS "Apps" as opposed to executables, and the scripts pull things they shouldn't, or butcher the computer worse.

Its not a good thing, but when I set up PCs I j ust buzz through and remove everything from the start menu. Inevitably it comes back on version upgrades (every year or so) but whatever.
Fantasy is more important than knowledge, because knowledge has its boundaries - Albert Einstein

Jan Regnier

We did uninstall the 64 bit office and installed the 32 bit....it did work OK at first but found issues along the way and made the change.  (we are Epic so not sure if that holds true for TAM)
Jan Regnier
jan.regnier@meyersglaros.com
Meyers Glaros Group, Merrillville, IN 26 Users
EPIC 2020, Office 365, Indio

Jim Jensen

Yes, I had the same. Applied Support told me that 64-bit Office wasn't supported and causes problems.

Quote from: Jan Regnier on July 24, 2020, 04:13:31 PM
We did uninstall the 64 bit office and installed the 32 bit....it did work OK at first but found issues along the way and made the change.  (we are Epic so not sure if that holds true for TAM)
Jim Jensen
CIC, CEO, CIO, COO, CFO, Producer, CSR, Claims Handler, janitor....whatever else.
Jensen Ford Insurance
Indianapolis

Hans Manhave

#15
I guess I will find a 32bit Office license before I put the hardware into service.

On one of my own machines, I played around with another Win10Pro and a Win10Enterprise installation.  I saw no difference between 10Pro and 10Ent.  There are even different Enterprise versions.  Will leave the Enterprise versions, I think.  They have to be paid annually as part of volume and do not appear to add anything significant for this small operation.  They also install with a lot of unneeded stuff.  I wasn't sure if the hardware was going to handle W10, but it did fine.

It was quite an experience creating bootable USBdrives.  All I had was either too large (64 GB) or too small (1GB) and Enterprise wouldn't fit on a DVD.  An 8GB would have been perfect.  Fortunately, there are utilities (Rufus) that nicely handle the larger sizes and just reduce them to 32GB.

If anyone has a suggestion on the cheapest way to acquire a "non-upgrade-from-previous-version" license for Win10Pro, I would appreciate the help.  Upgrade versions can still be found "free", but I like to continuously modify my own machine for a while and not have it overly tied to hardware, if that makes sense.  Considering a SSD instead of the whirly thingy.  Older laptop sure runs hot, but that doesn't appear to be a problem.
Fantasy is more important than knowledge, because knowledge has its boundaries - Albert Einstein

Bob

I will say this is why we left Applied.  We can use any flavor of Office or any MS product.  Our AMS is updated once a month if not twice sometimes fixes or adding more features.  No waiting until next version or some future request.  Users make enhancement request, they update based on demand of user and all users get input.  We don't wait months or years and support anything in today's market.  The accounting is more work but servicing clients is far more automated and easier, especially renewals and certs so I can accept that hit.  Not difficult just more steps in making a deposit that could be better. If we have any serious issue they fix that day.  Love their support.  No excuses they just act and do so quickly.   

Miss seeing all you guys but I do not miss Applied products at all when I keep reading the same old issues.  Always waiting on Applied and what they support.  Then posting work arounds until they fix it or add it.

Only reason I don't push Nexsure to you all yet is they still depend on IE module (rewriting support all browsers) for accounting.  Can use other browsers now.  Once this is completed I will recommend to you all.  Already supporting all browsers for servicing just the accounting is the last part, should be done by end of year I think.  Some of the names you know on ASCnet and this forum have come over.  I see them on our user forums which now is using TEAMS.  When this COVID thing over and we can once again have group meetings, I look forward to seeing them.

If you all ever get back to Vegas I will join you all.  I hope to be moving back to Phoenix come April.  Short drive.  :)

Billy Welsh

Poor Accounting, always the last to be asked to dance.  :'( ;)
Billy Welsh
VP of Accounting
CableSouth Media, LLC dba SwyftConnect

Hans Manhave

While the forum search function is in repair: what is the fix for the Microsoft Visual Basic "Run-time error '429': Class not registered   error?
Fantasy is more important than knowledge, because knowledge has its boundaries - Albert Einstein

Hans Manhave

Installed 32bit Office.  TAM/Word interface now appears to work.  Some day, I too will have the latest and greatest.  Until then, we keep plugging. 


Quote from: FWA on July 27, 2020, 03:14:09 PM
While the forum search function is in repair: what is the fix for the Microsoft Visual Basic "Run-time error '429': Class not registered   error?
Fantasy is more important than knowledge, because knowledge has its boundaries - Albert Einstein

Jeff Golas

Hans, just seeing this so see my notes below in red:

Quote from: FWA on July 27, 2020, 09:55:34 AM
I guess I will find a 32bit Office license before I put the hardware into service.

On one of my own machines, I played around with another Win10Pro and a Win10Enterprise installation.  I saw no difference between 10Pro and 10Ent.  There are even different Enterprise versions.  Will leave the Enterprise versions, I think.  They have to be paid annually as part of volume and do not appear to add anything significant for this small operation.  They also install with a lot of unneeded stuff.  I wasn't sure if the hardware was going to handle W10, but it did fine.

Fundamentally there's not much mechanical difference, however, what you get are a lot more rights. For example, If you use a corporate-grade deployment system like MDT (free), you can customize a lot more about the computer like start menu, etc as part of the deployment, whereas with Pro you don't have that luxury. Using MDT would even solve your USB/DVD conundrum as it boots right off the network. FYI though, you DO need at least one "open license" of Pro in order to unlock the ability to download the ISOs for corporate use. Using the "media creation tool" is mostly for home PCs and technically that install is "retail", not "corporate".

Looking forward, especially in current times, Microsoft is pushing for more of an Apple-like experience; using "AutoPilot" to basically configure a computer that a user simply takes right out of the box. More info and video here: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/windows-autopilot/windows-autopilot


It was quite an experience creating bootable USBdrives.  All I had was either too large (64 GB) or too small (1GB) and Enterprise wouldn't fit on a DVD.  An 8GB would have been perfect.  Fortunately, there are utilities (Rufus) that nicely handle the larger sizes and just reduce them to 32GB.

This shouldn't have been a problem? Never had an issue with a USB key being too big. WIndows 10 can literally handle terabyte and likely even petabyte-grade partitions. I wonder if you ran into this though (this is my own web site: https://www.junknet.net/2019/08/09/windows-10-media-creation-tool-errors-out/

If anyone has a suggestion on the cheapest way to acquire a "non-upgrade-from-previous-version" license for Win10Pro, I would appreciate the help.  Upgrade versions can still be found "free", but I like to continuously modify my own machine for a while and not have it overly tied to hardware, if that makes sense.  Considering a SSD instead of the whirly thingy.  Older laptop sure runs hot, but that doesn't appear to be a problem.

The license is usually tied to a token thats embedded in the bios now, hence why you usually don't enter product keys anymore. That said, Microsoft still allows for a Windows 7 computer to be upgraded to Windows 10 (using a Win7 product key from the licnse sticker). I can't see why they wouldn't, the gain from a Win10 install far outweighs the cost of trying to support older products.

You can buy Windows licenses retail if you needed them, for example of upgrading a computer that's Vista or older. But that's some old sctuff!

You also don't need a new license, etc to install an SSD and re-install Windows...again its linked to essentially a serial # on the motherboard, not the hardware like it used to. An SSD will wake up any old computer by a very very noticable factor; considering how cheap they've gotten its a no-brainer, again even older laptops, etc get MUCH faster with an SSD, and in a lot of cases you can use software like CloneZilla or Acronis or others to just dump the 1s and 0s off your old drive to an SSD, or re-install if that tickles your fancy. You won't have a problem with licensing.


Jeff Golas
Johnson, Kendall & Johnson, Inc. :: Newtown, PA
Epic Online w/CSR24
http://www.jkj.com

Jeff Golas

Quote from: FWA on July 24, 2020, 03:54:41 PM
Also, how does one install an ADMX module.  I don't have one yet, but somewhere I saw I would want one for domain/directory management with Server2008R2?

There's videos and what not out there, but basically on your domain controller, usually under sysvol (essentially the storage of your domain) there's folders for ADML and ADMX files, which build up your group policies. You would always want to make a backup copies of your existing files, and then overwrite them with all the latest ADML/ADMX files (in their respective folders), which essentially gives you the latest pile-o-group policies.
Jeff Golas
Johnson, Kendall & Johnson, Inc. :: Newtown, PA
Epic Online w/CSR24
http://www.jkj.com

Jeff Golas

#22
Quote from: Bob on July 27, 2020, 12:43:46 PM
I will say this is why we left Applied.  We can use any flavor of Office or any MS product.  Our AMS is updated once a month if not twice sometimes fixes or adding more features.  No waiting until next version or some future request.  Users make enhancement request, they update based on demand of user and all users get input.  We don't wait months or years and support anything in today's market.  The accounting is more work but servicing clients is far more automated and easier, especially renewals and certs so I can accept that hit.  Not difficult just more steps in making a deposit that could be better. If we have any serious issue they fix that day.  Love their support.  No excuses they just act and do so quickly.   

Miss seeing all you guys but I do not miss Applied products at all when I keep reading the same old issues.  Always waiting on Applied and what they support.  Then posting work arounds until they fix it or add it.

Only reason I don't push Nexsure to you all yet is they still depend on IE module (rewriting support all browsers) for accounting.  Can use other browsers now.  Once this is completed I will recommend to you all.  Already supporting all browsers for servicing just the accounting is the last part, should be done by end of year I think.  Some of the names you know on ASCnet and this forum have come over.  I see them on our user forums which now is using TEAMS.  When this COVID thing over and we can once again have group meetings, I look forward to seeing them.

If you all ever get back to Vegas I will join you all.  I hope to be moving back to Phoenix come April.  Short drive.  :)

While I wholeheartedly agree that Applied tends to be behind the times, sometimes by years, in this case it was only very recently (at least year's Ignite conference) that Microsoft themselves suggested using the 64 bit version of Office. It mainly has to do with plugin support; most plugins were written for 32 bit architecture, Applied's included. I run 32 bit office across the board and likely would still need to if I didn't have to deal with Applied.

The 32bit vs 64bit thing refers to how much ram a particular piece of software can access; 32 bits I think gives you up to 4 gig of ram (doin't quote me on this), 64 bit gets you...an order of a lot more. That means Word.exe could use say, 6 GIGS of ram if it needed it.

Unless you're working with 900 Page gold-plated Word docs or Excel sheets with millions of rows, you'd likely never need a 64 bit office. I can see Powerpoint being the only real ram hog with its media components.

OH and on the IE thing - the main thing about IE is it's proprietary "ActiveX" technology, which somehow still lingers on. That said, Microsoft's latest version of Edge is now a Chromium-based browser that supposedly will load IE if a page requires IE technology, yet defaults for the chromium engine for everything else. Its a noble thought, but I'll give it some time to simmer before I start down that path.
Jeff Golas
Johnson, Kendall & Johnson, Inc. :: Newtown, PA
Epic Online w/CSR24
http://www.jkj.com

Billy Welsh

Within the last 6-9 months, I have gone the free upgrade route on 2 different WIN 7 PC's.  If you Google it, there are roadmaps out there - it is not obvious by going straight to M$.

The 1st round was at home, which went really well.  Took a lot of time, but no hiccups on the install.  All my previously installed apps and devices still worked on WIN10.  That said, being this far into it, I have noticed serious performance degradation with the spinning thingy.  I had already maxed out the RAM before going to WIN10, and obviously that is not enough as it must be using a very large swap file.  I have an SSD to install, though I am waiting on that because I may score a retired laptop from the office that is much younger than what I have now and it already has a SSD.  So I may be able to return that to Crucial for a refund.

The 2nd round was on a mostly retired desktop at the office, which did not go as smoothly.  Had some driver and BIOS issues that I had to slug through before M$ would finally complete the install.  End result was the same - successful install and all necessary apps & devices operational.  I say "necessary" as I am not using every single thing on it that I previously did.  Keeping it around for a couple of legacy apps that I did not want to try and install on my new laptop - not worth the trouble.
Billy Welsh
VP of Accounting
CableSouth Media, LLC dba SwyftConnect

Bob

Quote from: Jeff Golas on July 27, 2020, 05:43:42 PM
OH and on the IE thing - the main thing about IE is it's proprietary "ActiveX" technology, which somehow still lingers on. That said, Microsoft's latest version of Edge is now a Chromium-based browser that supposedly will load IE if a page requires IE technology, yet defaults for the chromium engine for everything else. Its a noble thought, but I'll give it some time to simmer before I start down that path.

Nexsure hasn't said anything yet perhaps some work still going on but I tried Edge and you are correct.  Everything works where active X is concerned so far.  Thanks Jeff!

Hans Manhave

Yet one more issue.  Possibly a network interface problem?  "Could not read at least 8 bytes at offset 0 in "G:\TAM\TFILE_W.NDX": Error 59: An unexpected network error occurred.

The card does not go to sleep, neither does the computer, no screen saver.  I set the network card speed to 1Gb up/down instead of "auto". 

Anything else to adjust?  I have no idea yet if the above has now fixed it.  It seems to happen when the user is away from the terminal.
Fantasy is more important than knowledge, because knowledge has its boundaries - Albert Einstein

Hans Manhave

Any thoughts on this at all? 

Only thing I could find on Applied's KB, Artical 000019512.  Relates to Windows 7, not 10. 

sc config lanmanworkstation depend= bowser/mrxsmb10/nsi
sc config mrxsmb20 start= disabled

I have no idea what the above does so I have not implemented it.  Comments welcome.


Quote from: FWA on July 29, 2020, 05:45:29 PM
Yet one more issue.  Possibly a network interface problem?  "Could not read at least 8 bytes at offset 0 in "G:\TAM\TFILE_W.NDX": Error 59: An unexpected network error occurred.

The card does not go to sleep, neither does the computer, no screen saver.  I set the network card speed to 1Gb up/down instead of "auto". 

Anything else to adjust?  I have no idea yet if the above has now fixed it.  It seems to happen when the user is away from the terminal.
Fantasy is more important than knowledge, because knowledge has its boundaries - Albert Einstein

Mark

Quote from: FWA on July 31, 2020, 04:27:27 PM
Any thoughts on this at all? 

Only thing I could find on Applied's KB, Artical 000019512.  Relates to Windows 7, not 10. 

sc config lanmanworkstation depend= bowser/mrxsmb10/nsi
sc config mrxsmb20 start= disabled

I have no idea what the above does so I have not implemented it.  Comments welcome.

Looks like it probably turns off SMB version 2.  And maybe also version 1?
Mark Piontek, MBA
Director of Information Systems
BS in Information Systems Security

Hans Manhave

Thank you.

I turned off SMB3 which also turned off SMB2. 

There appeared to be a hint of time-out/sleep because the station was fine for a while.  The worker left TAM open and returned 30-45 minutes later to work on it some more.  Then it would error.   So, I also made sure the Dell switch had all the green features turned off.  Maybe Win10 drivers are "smarter" than Win7 and respond differently.  A Win7 station On the same connection never had this problem.  The operator adjusted by closing out when leaving the station so I am yet unsure if anything was resolved.  Time will tell.

I have no idea what features we are missing by now SMB 2/3 is turned off.
Fantasy is more important than knowledge, because knowledge has its boundaries - Albert Einstein

Mark

It's been a few years since TAM for me, but I don't think you want to downgrade SMB all the way to SMBv1.  I'd check the support docs on that.
Mark Piontek, MBA
Director of Information Systems
BS in Information Systems Security

Ric

Speaking of SMB1 and SMB2 we had dickens of a time attaching things to TAM last year and have had to resort to a unique and "unsupported" setup.

Users were getting "Reading bytes from file" dialog/message while attaching an Email etc. to TAM - it would take anywhere from 2-5 minutes then would clear and they could move on.  Worked with a savvy tech at Applied who found we had SMB2 turned on (Regedit on the Windows 2012R2 server = SMB2=1)

We were instructed to turn off SMB2 (SMB2=0) which we did.  No reboot of the server was required (although the tech asked us to do so)

Yay!  This solved the attaching problem instantanly.

The next day our accounting person is in agony over how long it was taking to do "simple" accounting things such as look up a disbursement and other Accounting functions.  it was taking minutes where it had been taking 30 or so seconds.

Putting 1 + 1 together and getting 3, I tried an outside the box idea and turned on SMB2 for our Accounting person, had her reboot and LO and BEHOLD disbursements and other functions were back to their normal / tolerable speed.

We quickly found that any regular (CSR, producer, etc.) workstation that was rebooted reverted to watching the paint dry when attaching things to TAM.

Therefore, since then we have been running with SMB2 off and anytime the accounting person reboots her machine, I turn SMB2 back on while she reboots and logs in, then I turn it back off.

Fun, huh?

Such is the world in which we live.
Ric Tucker
Manager of Information Systems
Past President, New Jersey Chapter

J A Mariano Agency
TAM 2020, 11users, Windows 2019 Server,
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit workstations
fax@vantage 9.0.5,
Acoustic guitar, drums, percussion
Chrome, Microsoft 365

Hans Manhave

Ugh!  How sad.


Quote from: Ric on August 06, 2020, 11:12:34 AM
Speaking of SMB1 and SMB2 we had dickens of a time attaching things to TAM last year and have had to resort to a unique and "unsupported" setup.

Users were getting "Reading bytes from file" dialog/message while attaching an Email etc. to TAM - it would take anywhere from 2-5 minutes then would clear and they could move on.  Worked with a savvy tech at Applied who found we had SMB2 turned on (Regedit on the Windows 2012R2 server = SMB2=1)

We were instructed to turn off SMB2 (SMB2=0) which we did.  No reboot of the server was required (although the tech asked us to do so)

Yay!  This solved the attaching problem instantanly.

The next day our accounting person is in agony over how long it was taking to do "simple" accounting things such as look up a disbursement and other Accounting functions.  it was taking minutes where it had been taking 30 or so seconds.

Putting 1 + 1 together and getting 3, I tried an outside the box idea and turned on SMB2 for our Accounting person, had her reboot and LO and BEHOLD disbursements and other functions were back to their normal / tolerable speed.

We quickly found that any regular (CSR, producer, etc.) workstation that was rebooted reverted to watching the paint dry when attaching things to TAM.

Therefore, since then we have been running with SMB2 off and anytime the accounting person reboots her machine, I turn SMB2 back on while she reboots and logs in, then I turn it back off.

Fun, huh?

Such is the world in which we live.
Fantasy is more important than knowledge, because knowledge has its boundaries - Albert Einstein

Jeff Golas

Quote from: Ric on August 06, 2020, 11:12:34 AM
Speaking of SMB1 and SMB2 we had dickens of a time attaching things to TAM last year and have had to resort to a unique and "unsupported" setup.

Users were getting "Reading bytes from file" dialog/message while attaching an Email etc. to TAM - it would take anywhere from 2-5 minutes then would clear and they could move on.  Worked with a savvy tech at Applied who found we had SMB2 turned on (Regedit on the Windows 2012R2 server = SMB2=1)

We were instructed to turn off SMB2 (SMB2=0) which we did.  No reboot of the server was required (although the tech asked us to do so)

Yay!  This solved the attaching problem instantanly.

The next day our accounting person is in agony over how long it was taking to do "simple" accounting things such as look up a disbursement and other Accounting functions.  it was taking minutes where it had been taking 30 or so seconds.

Putting 1 + 1 together and getting 3, I tried an outside the box idea and turned on SMB2 for our Accounting person, had her reboot and LO and BEHOLD disbursements and other functions were back to their normal / tolerable speed.

We quickly found that any regular (CSR, producer, etc.) workstation that was rebooted reverted to watching the paint dry when attaching things to TAM.

Therefore, since then we have been running with SMB2 off and anytime the accounting person reboots her machine, I turn SMB2 back on while she reboots and logs in, then I turn it back off.

Fun, huh?

Such is the world in which we live.

I'd be wiling to bet there's a naming problem here...naming as in DNS/WINS/NETBIOS, potentially all of the above fighting. THey're all sort of on by default, but really you only need one naming system, and DNS is the way to go. WINS and netbios should be disabled it not done already, and you may have to look at some DNS and/or DHCP settings to see how things are cookin. These kinds of issues forced me to learn this stuff in better detail.

I'd be willing to bet if you do an nslookup of your file server from an affected workstation, it'll prob be routing elsewhere or not resolving properly. You should be able to nslookup the server name itself without the fqdn (server vs server.domain.net), as well as using the full fqdn (server.domain.net).

In addition, I'd be pushing a GPO to disable smb1/2 if necessary. SMB3 is the way to go and SMB1 should be disabled everywhere.

Jeff Golas
Johnson, Kendall & Johnson, Inc. :: Newtown, PA
Epic Online w/CSR24
http://www.jkj.com

Ric

Quote from: Jeff Golas on August 06, 2020, 03:00:25 PM
Quote from: Ric on August 06, 2020, 11:12:34 AM
Speaking of SMB1 and SMB2 we had dickens of a time attaching things to TAM last year and have had to resort to a unique and "unsupported" setup.

Users were getting "Reading bytes from file" dialog/message while attaching an Email etc. to TAM - it would take anywhere from 2-5 minutes then would clear and they could move on.  Worked with a savvy tech at Applied who found we had SMB2 turned on (Regedit on the Windows 2012R2 server = SMB2=1)

We were instructed to turn off SMB2 (SMB2=0) which we did.  No reboot of the server was required (although the tech asked us to do so)

Yay!  This solved the attaching problem instantanly.

The next day our accounting person is in agony over how long it was taking to do "simple" accounting things such as look up a disbursement and other Accounting functions.  it was taking minutes where it had been taking 30 or so seconds.

Putting 1 + 1 together and getting 3, I tried an outside the box idea and turned on SMB2 for our Accounting person, had her reboot and LO and BEHOLD disbursements and other functions were back to their normal / tolerable speed.

We quickly found that any regular (CSR, producer, etc.) workstation that was rebooted reverted to watching the paint dry when attaching things to TAM.

Therefore, since then we have been running with SMB2 off and anytime the accounting person reboots her machine, I turn SMB2 back on while she reboots and logs in, then I turn it back off.

Fun, huh?

Such is the world in which we live.

I'd be wiling to bet there's a naming problem here...naming as in DNS/WINS/NETBIOS, potentially all of the above fighting. THey're all sort of on by default, but really you only need one naming system, and DNS is the way to go. WINS and netbios should be disabled it not done already, and you may have to look at some DNS and/or DHCP settings to see how things are cookin. These kinds of issues forced me to learn this stuff in better detail.

I'd be willing to bet if you do an nslookup of your file server from an affected workstation, it'll prob be routing elsewhere or not resolving properly. You should be able to nslookup the server name itself without the fqdn (server vs server.domain.net), as well as using the full fqdn (server.domain.net).

In addition, I'd be pushing a GPO to disable smb1/2 if necessary. SMB3 is the way to go and SMB1 should be disabled everywhere.

Thanx Jeff!

Looking into this...
Ric Tucker
Manager of Information Systems
Past President, New Jersey Chapter

J A Mariano Agency
TAM 2020, 11users, Windows 2019 Server,
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit workstations
fax@vantage 9.0.5,
Acoustic guitar, drums, percussion
Chrome, Microsoft 365

Jeff Zylstra

I went through this years ago with opportunistic file locking, so I feel your pain. 

I thought this was a good article on the various versions of SMB and what they do, and how to manipulate them.  Good luck and let us know how you come out!

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/storage/file-server/troubleshoot/detect-enable-and-disable-smbv1-v2-v3
"We hang the petty thieves, and appoint the great ones to public office"  -  Aesop

Hans Manhave

Turning off SMB2/3 apparently does not relieve the problem.  The user just got used to the station disconnecting from TAM after some time away from her desk and didn't let me know anymore.   :)   I did notice that our Dell 5548 switch likes to reset the "green" setting if power to it is lost.  So I, again, turned that off.  No idea why that switch resets just that feature.  There is no battery inside.  UPS does hold during power outages and the generator kicks on within a minute when needed.  I just watch the switch clock setting more often now because that also resets.  The uptime of the switch has become interesting.  For reference, other work stations (pre-Win10) have been on that cubicle and switch port without a problem.  Considering trying the station wireless, just to see what that will do.
Fantasy is more important than knowledge, because knowledge has its boundaries - Albert Einstein

Hans Manhave

Further info, in case someone wants to attack this:

Looking through the event log, there are continuous PNRPSvc 102 errors.  This appears to apply to a Windows Server 2008R2 which we have.  I just have not found something that resolves this.  Also found a bunch of "Bonjour" activity.  I have yet to locate a solution for this.  Windows 10 workstation.
Fantasy is more important than knowledge, because knowledge has its boundaries - Albert Einstein

Jeff Golas

Bonjour is a discovery protocol thats usually used by Apple Devices, like ipads/iphones, especially for printing, so even if you don't have Apple devices, it can be coming from a printer.

Not sure what the other is (yet) but curious. I have a meeting all afternoon so I can't play Google today.
Jeff Golas
Johnson, Kendall & Johnson, Inc. :: Newtown, PA
Epic Online w/CSR24
http://www.jkj.com