Author Topic: Sharing files across network  (Read 740 times)

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Offline Ric

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Sharing files across network
« on: April 09, 2019, 08:56:37 am »
We are on a Windows 2012 R2 server with Windows 10 Pro machines.

I'm having trouble sharing files and folders that also happens to be part of OneDrive via Office 365.  But we're talking about files and folders that are physically on the local C drive
C:\Users\USER\OneDrive - JA Mariano Agency

The goal is for our Agency Principal's documents folder, sub folders and files be shared with his Executive Assistant so she has complete access to edit, copy, delete files, folder, documents etc.

The folder has been shared using File Properties / Sharing / Share.  I've given his assistant Read/Write rights.  See 0.png

Also added his assistant to Advanced Sharing and gave full access.

Opening a document presents "Restrict Editing" frame on the right. Stopping the protection still does not allow the user to edit at will.  See 1.png

Trying to save the document results in "We can't save this file because it's read-only"  (it's not)  See 2.png

My expectation is for the assistant to be able to copy, change, edit delete files and folder and access continues to be restricted.

I am able to edit, delete etc. from my workstation but I have network administrator rights.

What am I missing?

Thanx.

Ric
Ric Tucker
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Offline Tom Fisher

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Re: Sharing files across network
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2019, 09:12:11 am »
Is it a personal or business one drive account?

and i know this isn't helpful, but i'm just curious - why not share via onedrive?
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Offline Jeff Zylstra

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Re: Sharing files across network
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2019, 09:35:28 am »
I'll admit I'm not familiar with One Drive, but it seems like you would have a conflict trying to share file using 2 separate file sharing/file locking systems -  One Drive and Windows shares.  Which one is "authoritative" in this system?   

I suppose you could give that user admin level rights to that one folder, but opening things up totally doesn't seem like a good idea.
"We hang the petty thieves, and appoint the great ones to public office"  -  Aesop

Offline Ric

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Re: Sharing files across network
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2019, 09:43:51 am »
Is it a personal or business one drive account?

and i know this isn't helpful, but i'm just curious - why not share via onedrive?

Tom,

This is business.

I did share it via OneDrive as a backup but it uses a browser UI that is terrible in general.  It's sooooo much simpler / cleaner to use File Explorer

Thanx.

Ric
Ric Tucker
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Offline Ric

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Re: Sharing files across network
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2019, 09:46:14 am »
I'll admit I'm not familiar with One Drive, but it seems like you would have a conflict trying to share file using 2 separate file sharing/file locking systems -  One Drive and Windows shares.  Which one is "authoritative" in this system?   

I suppose you could give that user admin level rights to that one folder, but opening things up totally doesn't seem like a good idea.

Jeff,

I see no reason for a conflict although we are discussing two Micro$oft products.  The two systems should happily coexist.  Plus, I have shared rights on both systems.

Like you, I'm reluctant to grant Admin rights to the user.

Thanx,

Ric
Ric Tucker
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Offline Mark

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Re: Sharing files across network
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2019, 10:22:44 am »
I see you've given share permissions, but no mention of NTFS permissions which would take precedence.

Edit: Also, there may be some inheritable permissions at play here since it's in the profile.  You should be able to override them if they cause issue, but I'd recommend instead that you create a new share for this purpose.  You could always place shortcuts in the user's folder as to not confuse them.

I feel there is potential for things to get messy when oyu start sharing things out of profile/home folders.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2019, 10:25:00 am by Mark »
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Offline Tom Fisher

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Re: Sharing files across network
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2019, 10:39:40 am »
My thinking is along the lines of Jeff's.  I'm not sure, but it seems like OneDrive might have some overriding permissions on these files.
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Offline Ric

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Re: Sharing files across network
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2019, 11:13:47 am »
I see you've given share permissions, but no mention of NTFS permissions which would take precedence.

Edit: Also, there may be some inheritable permissions at play here since it's in the profile.  You should be able to override them if they cause issue, but I'd recommend instead that you create a new share for this purpose.  You could always place shortcuts in the user's folder as to not confuse them.

I feel there is potential for things to get messy when oyu start sharing things out of profile/home folders.

Mark,

My apologies.  I had given the assistant Full Control via Properties/Security.  See attached.  I would imagine this is what is meant as NTFS permission.  My understanding is NT permissions should overrule any other permissions which causes me to wonder what's up. 

See 3.png

Thank you.

Ric

Ric Tucker
Manager of Information Systems
Past President, New Jersey Chapter

J A Mariano Agency
TAM 14.0.2, 13 users, Windows 2012 Server, Windows 7 Pro 32-bit workstations
fax@vantage 9.0.5,
Acoustic guitar, drums, percussion
Internet Exploder 11, Office 2010

Offline Jeff Zylstra

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Re: Sharing files across network
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2019, 11:20:23 am »
Are there any messages in any of the event viewer logs that could shed light on this? 
"We hang the petty thieves, and appoint the great ones to public office"  -  Aesop

Offline Mark

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Re: Sharing files across network
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2019, 11:26:32 am »
Mark,

My apologies.  I had given the assistant Full Control via Properties/Security.  See attached.  I would imagine this is what is meant as NTFS permission.  My understanding is NT permissions should overrule any other permissions which causes me to wonder what's up. 

See 3.png

Thank you.

Ric

Yep, that was exactly what I was referring to.  Anything in advanced stand out to you?  What results do you get if you use the Effective Permissions tab under advanced?
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Offline Tom Fisher

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Re: Sharing files across network
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2019, 11:30:27 am »
Kinda curious what the security tab looks like for a FILE within that folder?
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Offline Mark

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Re: Sharing files across network
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2019, 11:40:26 am »
Kinda curious what the security tab looks like for a FILE within that folder?

Right.  Could be inheriting.  That's why I'd place this outside of a users's home drive if this is a home drive situation.
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Offline Ric

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Re: Sharing files across network
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2019, 12:03:26 pm »
Mark,

My apologies.  I had given the assistant Full Control via Properties/Security.  See attached.  I would imagine this is what is meant as NTFS permission.  My understanding is NT permissions should overrule any other permissions which causes me to wonder what's up. 

See 3.png

Thank you.

Ric

Yep, that was exactly what I was referring to.  Anything in advanced stand out to you?  What results do you get if you use the Effective Permissions tab under advanced?

Mark,

Glad I had the right idea, just did not know the proper term was NTFS

Nothing stands out to me in Advanced.  The assistant has Full control of the Documents folder.  See 5.png

#headscratcher
Ric Tucker
Manager of Information Systems
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Offline Ric

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Re: Sharing files across network
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2019, 12:04:21 pm »
Kinda curious what the security tab looks like for a FILE within that folder?

Tom,

Files show Full Control

see 4.png

#headscratcher
Ric Tucker
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Offline Mark

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Re: Sharing files across network
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2019, 02:00:03 pm »
Ric, did you try the effective permissions tab to see if that tells you anything different?
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Offline Mark

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Re: Sharing files across network
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2019, 02:02:25 pm »
Also, I had ignored 1.png.  Can the assistant create new files in the shared folder?  Can they edit non-Office files that are in that folder?
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Offline Jeff Golas

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Re: Sharing files across network
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2019, 01:52:43 pm »
Keep in mind for every share, there's 2 sets of permissions at play; disk permissions, and share permissions. You may need to give her full control on the share level as well.

That said, I second and third Tom and Jeff's comments - you're sharing files 2 different ways and hoping they work out. The authoritative issue comes into play where one person opens and modifies the file via the share, one person opens the file locally, then one person opens and modifies the file via OneDrive - who wins?

With OneDrive, it may be modifying or locking files open depending on how it's syncing, so I wouldn't ever share a folder that's already being synced by oneDrive. Just move the files into their own folder, then set up a logout script or scheduled task to manually copy the folder into a backup folder on OneDrive if you want to continue doing that.

Lastly...on the networking front, depending on what setting/profile you're on for Windows Firewall (does the computer think its on a public network?), that may be blocking access to shares. Easy enough to temporarily disable to test, but if you do figure out that it's the issue, make sure you just fix the rules (or pick the proper profile) so it can be re-enabled.

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Offline Ric

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Re: Sharing files across network
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2019, 01:56:59 pm »
Also, I had ignored 1.png.  Can the assistant create new files in the shared folder?  Can they edit non-Office files that are in that folder?

Mystery solved by our Office 365 support staff!  see below and attached.

It's a bit convoluted but works.

Thank each of you for offering your suggestions and thoughts!

Ric


First User A have to go to his OneDrive online.
 

Then find folder and share it with to User B with permission to edit.
 

Then User B should login into his OneDrive on his device and go to “Shared” catalog.
 

Enter shared folder and choose sync option.
 
Onedrive will ask User 2 to sign in into desktop OneDrive
Now User 2 should have this folder in his file manager. There should appear icon like this:


Ric Tucker
Manager of Information Systems
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J A Mariano Agency
TAM 14.0.2, 13 users, Windows 2012 Server, Windows 7 Pro 32-bit workstations
fax@vantage 9.0.5,
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Offline Jeff Golas

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Re: Sharing files across network
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2019, 01:59:30 pm »
Woohoo..I'm surprised you can sync from "shared with me" but so be it. Now remove the local sharing so that doesn't butcher something down the road.
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Offline Ric

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Re: Sharing files across network
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2019, 02:10:18 pm »
Woohoo..I'm surprised you can sync from "shared with me" but so be it. Now remove the local sharing so that doesn't butcher something down the road.

good idea!

Thanx!
Ric Tucker
Manager of Information Systems
Past President, New Jersey Chapter

J A Mariano Agency
TAM 14.0.2, 13 users, Windows 2012 Server, Windows 7 Pro 32-bit workstations
fax@vantage 9.0.5,
Acoustic guitar, drums, percussion
Internet Exploder 11, Office 2010

Offline Tom Fisher

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Re: Sharing files across network
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2019, 03:15:54 pm »
Ok, so basically you can not share in this folder without the assistance of OneDrive itself?
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Offline Ric

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Re: Sharing files across network
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2019, 03:46:21 pm »
Ok, so basically you can not share in this folder without the assistance of OneDrive itself?

That's what it looks like.  I'm guessing M$ did take a strategic look at this and relies on OneDrive to manage the security for this data
Ric Tucker
Manager of Information Systems
Past President, New Jersey Chapter

J A Mariano Agency
TAM 14.0.2, 13 users, Windows 2012 Server, Windows 7 Pro 32-bit workstations
fax@vantage 9.0.5,
Acoustic guitar, drums, percussion
Internet Exploder 11, Office 2010