Author Topic: Office365 and TAM ONline  (Read 1711 times)

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Offline Tom Fisher

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Office365 and TAM ONline
« on: July 30, 2018, 03:13:22 pm »
Ok, I know O365 is officially supported to be used with TAM.. but I attended a local user group meeting last year and specifically recall someone mentioning a very specific 'gotchya' with Outlook in 0365 and TAM Online.  I wrote it down and put it in a safe place... you know how that goes.

Does anyone have any idea what that gotchya might be?
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Offline Jeff Golas

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2018, 03:18:43 pm »
Might be what Heather mentioned maybe under the cloud services area - that updates to office may "break" things in Applied (since they're usually 22 years behind), and if so you may be stuck with those updates/broken feature until they fix it (22 years later).
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Offline Tom Fisher

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2018, 03:30:05 pm »
No, it wasn't that .. this was a pretty specific thing... as it related to email/Outlook and TAM online.  Its killing me now........
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Offline Jim Jensen

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2018, 03:15:41 pm »
I've not used Tam Online, but I knew an agency that did it for a while and there were 2 specific workflows that are different compared to LAN - attachments and email. Emails had to go through a specific email account for TamOnline, if I remember correctly, in order to be attached within TAM or using the "send email" links within TAM and I would expect that this plus Outlook365 may be hinky, since they're both online apps that may not see each other. Attachments have to uploaded before they can be attached in Tam Online, rather than "drag and drop" from your hard drive. It's possible that both of those may have changed, as its been several years since I saw those workflows.
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Offline Heather Reetz

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2018, 11:24:58 am »
I just posted about an issue we are having with Outlook.  There is nothing that obviously points at Applied.  We are on Epic Cloud, though, so I wonder.

I do know that Applied still "does not support" Windows Server 2016, which is necessary if you run a terminal server environment and want to use O365.  Actually, I think it will work with 2013, but when upgrading it seemed silly to go to 2013 now to likely go to 2016 in the not so distant future.  ... Unless that is why we are having this irritating issue with Outlook.
Heather Reetz
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Offline Tom Fisher

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2018, 12:59:46 pm »

I do know that Applied still "does not support" Windows Server 2016, which is necessary if you run a terminal server environment and want to use O365. 

Well now I'm super confused because TAM Online really is just a TS environment, isn't it?  Maybe this is the 'gotchya' I'm looking for?
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Offline Heather Reetz

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2018, 10:33:16 am »
It might be, Tom.  We can't figure out what is happening with our OST files, why they are corrupting, so I'm only guessing that there might be a correlation.  Then again, it could be a M$ update, like others have suggested.
Heather Reetz
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Offline Nick Oliver

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2018, 03:46:48 pm »

Tom, the "problem" before was specific to office versions that were click-to-run... they don't load all settings so when you attempt to launch say a word doc within tam, it needs specific things already enabled in word... if they aren't there, it chokes.  the click-to-run will then attempt the install (provided it didn't choke too much) and it'll work the next go round.  So, instead of dealing with a thousand end users (more) and explaining what's what, it's easier to just not support the product.  At least, this is my understanding of the root problem.


Heather, the OST file issue you have... are those files huge?  If so, that's your issue.  At least use outlook 2013 and throttle how much is cached, anything prior to that sucks.  I'd keep that ost under 2gb for performance.  Otherwise you'll be deleting it a lot and waiting for it to download all the time.

Offline Heather Reetz

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2018, 04:32:49 pm »
Nick, we are on 2016.  Some are large, some are small.  That also has not been consistent.  The most recent issue happened with an OST file that is 800mb.
Heather Reetz
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Offline Jeff Golas

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2018, 11:30:44 am »
I dont think Heather's Outlook issues are specific to OST size, although I'm sure it plays a part. We've had some crazy issues over the past few months, specifically starting with a particular MS update that updated Windows search (and subsequently "broke" Outlook search). I've been moving peeps to Office 2016, and while it seems to help, even 2016 has its problems too.

I think Microsoft in general is really having a lot of quality problems over the past year (or 10), but moreso the past year as they change their patching processes. Lots of people really getting fed up with them, like this:

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3293440/microsoft-windows/an-open-letter-to-microsoft-management-re-windows-updating.html
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Offline Bob

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2018, 02:55:41 pm »
We use to get corrupted profiles a lot when using TS.  TS to TS environment wonder if any impact.   Now I'm a believer in 100% turnkey cloud computing dump TS.   3 yrs removed, no issues.
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Offline Mark

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2018, 03:09:05 pm »
You kind of want to (or have to?) use OST with 365, don't you?
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Offline Jeff Golas

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2018, 03:48:06 pm »
You kind of want to (or have to?) use OST with 365, don't you?

Not if you only use Outlook Web Access. Technically in a cloud-first world, a product like Epic would talk via API to someone's O365 mailbox rather than talk to the client app which is what it currently does.
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Offline Mark

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2018, 03:50:14 pm »
You mean it currently talks to the app - right?

I wasn't trying to take this thread off topic, just getting a better understanding.  I have almost no OST experience.  I like it that way and plan to keep it that way for as long as possible.
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Offline Jeff Golas

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2018, 04:34:22 pm »
The OST is just Outlook's data cache file, it doesn't matter if you're exchange on-prem or hosted or whatever, OST is just a cache of data. You CAN run Outlook in non-cached mode (no ost), but then it becomes a stricly client-server ordeal and would really amp up the amount of data going over the pipe, to the point where you'd have to up the pipe (bandwidth).

I think in a lot of cases, its not really the OST getting corrupted, but I feel like sometimes we may get a garbage or malicious-inteded email with bad encoding or foreign characters that crashes the search API in Windows/Outlook, as opposed to an actually corrrupted OST. I can count on one hand the amount of times I've re-generated an OST intentionally over the past few years, maybe even 2 fingers at that.

What I meant by my post above, is that right now, Epic for example, is utilizing APIs made available by the Outlook program itself, because Epic itself is also a rich client. So Epic goes "I need to send an email on this computer" - the default email handler is Outlook, so even if the program itself isn't running, its actually used to generate and send an email using it's configuration because its the default. In the future, Epic could talk to the user's mailbox via a REST/SOAP api right over the internet, so Epic would be utilizing the mailbox and server without ever needing Outlook as a client. THe reason is then with Outlook out of the picture, you can attach emails using an IPAD, or Android, or a glorified calculator, because the Windows desktop software is no longer part of the picture.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 04:36:55 pm by Jeff Golas »
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Offline Bob

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2018, 06:17:39 pm »
I didn't mean to cause more confusion..  Our TS Corruptions were actual profiles.  At least 1-2 a month.  Got old making new ones copying contents over.  Since moving off TS, not 1 corrupted profile in 3 yrs.  Never could find a pattern.  Only thing shared was TS and again since gone, 3 yrs not a single issue.  Always started with mail and didn't start until we went too Office 365 E1 plan (outlook only).  When TS removed because felt not needed with all this desktop cloud computing, not happened again.  Very little happens.   If you're on hosted email, hosted EPIC 75% there why use TS.  Can still have workstations joined domain, still enforce GPO for control.   TS was solution for in house TAM and sharing with other locations.  Without in house data, more efficient and less expensive to do without ts.  What we've done and with Kaseya, I can address any desktop issue which is rare or none.
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Offline Mark

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2018, 06:54:17 pm »
I know what the ost is, and that's exactly why I don't use it. Of course I'm on prem, though.
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Offline Jeff Golas

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2018, 11:42:57 am »
I didn't mean to cause more confusion..  Our TS Corruptions were actual profiles.  At least 1-2 a month.  Got old making new ones copying contents over.  Since moving off TS, not 1 corrupted profile in 3 yrs.  Never could find a pattern.  Only thing shared was TS and again since gone, 3 yrs not a single issue.  Always started with mail and didn't start until we went too Office 365 E1 plan (outlook only).  When TS removed because felt not needed with all this desktop cloud computing, not happened again.  Very little happens.   If you're on hosted email, hosted EPIC 75% there why use TS.  Can still have workstations joined domain, still enforce GPO for control.   TS was solution for in house TAM and sharing with other locations.  Without in house data, more efficient and less expensive to do without ts.  What we've done and with Kaseya, I can address any desktop issue which is rare or none.

I had similiar issues Bob - I think TS is more or less a thing of the past as opposed to desktop over IP now, which instead of virtualizing just the one user experience, it practically runs an entire OS for one user so completely seperate user space.
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Offline Mark

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2018, 11:45:51 am »
I had similiar issues Bob - I think TS is more or less a thing of the past as opposed to desktop over IP now, which instead of virtualizing just the one user experience, it practically runs an entire OS for one user so completely seperate user space.

Pricey though.  You can get these in the cloud, too.  But just as pricey as rolling it yourself.
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Offline Jeff Golas

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2018, 11:55:21 am »
A little yes...but compared to ordering a server, maintaining it, patching it, getting AV and security fixes, etc etc etc, when I can go File > New > Desktop (enter a few settings), and by the time I would have finished the phone call to order the server, I have a desktop booted and ready to go based on an image I created.
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Offline Mark

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2018, 11:56:59 am »
A little yes...but compared to ordering a server, maintaining it, patching it, getting AV and security fixes, etc etc etc, when I can go File > New > Desktop (enter a few settings), and by the time I would have finished the phone call to order the server, I have a desktop booted and ready to go based on an image I created.

Oh - definitely worth the premium if it fits in your budget.  I run numbers every year and I can't make it make sense.
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Offline Jeff Golas

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2018, 12:04:04 pm »
The bigger part here is that given a DR scenerio, we lose power just often enough that it's a problem keeping infrastructure running here. The cost of installing a decent generator in compliance with the township (putting it at the back of the building, full seperate power feed to the FRONT, disconnect, installation, etc etc) would be nearly 6 figures, so that automatically means that other means are in order.
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Offline Mark

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2018, 01:40:01 pm »
Perfect candidate then. Different budget requirements.
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Offline Heather Reetz

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2018, 01:52:33 pm »
Not sure if I mentioned it before, but we also have one user that is on a virtual desktop and has the same problem. 
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Offline Jeff Golas

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2018, 04:27:30 pm »
Not sure if I mentioned it before, but we also have one user that is on a virtual desktop and has the same problem.

If you're referring to the Outlook crashes, it happens to us on brand new freshly imaged laptops, but moreso on older laptops usually running Windows 8 and Office 2013.
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Offline Tom Fisher

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2018, 12:40:42 pm »
So can someone tell me what email client is provided in the TAMOnline environment?   ...and is the license for that provided by AS or the agency?
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Offline Nick Oliver

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2018, 02:32:04 pm »

I do believe it's outlook 2013, and it's provided by AS.


So can someone tell me what email client is provided in the TAMOnline environment?   ...and is the license for that provided by AS or the agency?

Offline Tom Fisher

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2018, 02:51:04 pm »
Thanks Nick... follow up Q if anyone knows to prevent me from contacting AS lol ... can the client go in and change those outlook email settings (say if they changed email providers?) or does A$ have to do that?  im not sure how locked down they keep things on that environment.
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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2018, 01:40:17 pm »

I do believe it's outlook 2013, and it's provided by AS.


So can someone tell me what email client is provided in the TAMOnline environment?   ...and is the license for that provided by AS or the agency?

looks like someone needs to update their Avatar :)

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Offline Ric

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Re: Office365 and TAM ONline
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2018, 01:40:34 pm »

I do believe it's outlook 2013, and it's provided by AS.


So can someone tell me what email client is provided in the TAMOnline environment?   ...and is the license for that provided by AS or the agency?
Ric Tucker
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