Author Topic: O365 and Epic 2017 - MSI vs Click to Run  (Read 1497 times)

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Offline sboehm

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O365 and Epic 2017 - MSI vs Click to Run
« on: January 02, 2018, 01:56:32 pm »
We're in the process of migrating out on-site Exchange 2007 to O365. During a conversation with someone in data services at Applied, they stressed that we MUST use the MSI installer and NOT the Click to Run installer for Office 2016.

I opened a ticket with Applied and they verified this.

I didn't think this would be a problem except that O365 support AND Applied both tell me that the only way to get the MSI installer for Office 2016 is through Volume Licensing, which increases the cost substantially.
Quote
If you need a true MSI install, you may have to go with a volume license.  You can go through the Volume Licensing Center and purchase this yourself, but you may be able to go through a Cloud Services Provider and bundle the volume license for Office 2016 with an Office 365 cloud apps subscription (like Business Essentials or E1) for less than the cost of both of those separately. 

So I'm curious if anyone else has ran into this problem.

Also, after we finish the O365 migration we're moving to Epic Online if that makes any difference.
Charles L Crane Agency
St. Louis, MO

Offline Jeff Golas

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Re: O365 and Epic 2017 - MSI vs Click to Run
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2018, 05:20:37 pm »
You can get the MSI installer, but honestly, they both do the same thing, and I can tell you I did 100 click-to-runs no problem with zero ill effects.

The only benefit to the MSI is that you can tweak some of the installation settings.
Jeff Golas
Johnson, Kendall & Johnson, Inc. :: Newtown, PA
Epic Online w/CSR24
http://www.jkj.com

Offline sboehm

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Re: O365 and Epic 2017 - MSI vs Click to Run
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2018, 06:10:44 pm »
You can get the MSI installer, but honestly, they both do the same thing, and I can tell you I did 100 click-to-runs no problem with zero ill effects.

The only benefit to the MSI is that you can tweak some of the installation settings.

Can you direct me on where to find it then? I've searched high and low and have been told by both Microsoft AND Applied that the MSI is not available for Office 2016 without spending tons of money on a per license basis on a combined volume license/cloud subscription purchase. 

We've triple checked with Applied and they insist that you must run the MSI because click to run has issues with their macros. But I can't get any specifics out of them.

I just can't believe that this is the case. But I sure don't want to do 260+ installations and find out that we've got problems and have to remove and reinstall, along with purchasing 260+ licenses.
Charles L Crane Agency
St. Louis, MO

Offline Jeff Golas

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Re: O365 and Epic 2017 - MSI vs Click to Run
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2018, 11:13:48 am »
So when I say MSI, its really the offline installer, but honestly I only tweak a setting or do and it still downloads the meat from Microsoft anyway. Either way, I've had no issues using this MSI method or direct click2run installations. Now the one thing I HAVE run into, is macro issues on older Applied products (Vision), and in some cases maybe an issue with multiple/many files open at one time from Epic, but otherwise its been a non-issue. I'm sure there's differences, but off the top of my head I can't think of any.

Note that I think due to the meltdown/spectre crap O365 admin portal has not been accessible lately.

See this: https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Use-the-Office-2016-offline-installer-f0a85fe7-118f-41cb-a791-d59cef96ad1c#OfficePlans=Office_for_business

Jeff


You can get the MSI installer, but honestly, they both do the same thing, and I can tell you I did 100 click-to-runs no problem with zero ill effects.

The only benefit to the MSI is that you can tweak some of the installation settings.

Can you direct me on where to find it then? I've searched high and low and have been told by both Microsoft AND Applied that the MSI is not available for Office 2016 without spending tons of money on a per license basis on a combined volume license/cloud subscription purchase. 

We've triple checked with Applied and they insist that you must run the MSI because click to run has issues with their macros. But I can't get any specifics out of them.

I just can't believe that this is the case. But I sure don't want to do 260+ installations and find out that we've got problems and have to remove and reinstall, along with purchasing 260+ licenses.
Jeff Golas
Johnson, Kendall & Johnson, Inc. :: Newtown, PA
Epic Online w/CSR24
http://www.jkj.com

Offline sboehm

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Re: O365 and Epic 2017 - MSI vs Click to Run
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2018, 03:48:55 pm »
OK I think that's where we're on different pages then. I'm talking about a true MSI.

I've already tested the offline installer for Office 2016, which works fantastic BTW and I wish I could use it, but in the end it just installs a click to run version of Office 2016 (see attachment).
I wonder if this might be what applied is thinking too? I'll double check with them and make sure they're not talking about the pre-installed version of Office vs. installed using the offline installer.

Thanks for the continued feedback.

So when I say MSI, its really the offline installer, but honestly I only tweak a setting or do and it still downloads the meat from Microsoft anyway. Either way, I've had no issues using this MSI method or direct click2run installations. Now the one thing I HAVE run into, is macro issues on older Applied products (Vision), and in some cases maybe an issue with multiple/many files open at one time from Epic, but otherwise its been a non-issue. I'm sure there's differences, but off the top of my head I can't think of any.

Note that I think due to the meltdown/spectre crap O365 admin portal has not been accessible lately.

See this: https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Use-the-Office-2016-offline-installer-f0a85fe7-118f-41cb-a791-d59cef96ad1c#OfficePlans=Office_for_business

Jeff


You can get the MSI installer, but honestly, they both do the same thing, and I can tell you I did 100 click-to-runs no problem with zero ill effects.

The only benefit to the MSI is that you can tweak some of the installation settings.

Can you direct me on where to find it then? I've searched high and low and have been told by both Microsoft AND Applied that the MSI is not available for Office 2016 without spending tons of money on a per license basis on a combined volume license/cloud subscription purchase. 

We've triple checked with Applied and they insist that you must run the MSI because click to run has issues with their macros. But I can't get any specifics out of them.

I just can't believe that this is the case. But I sure don't want to do 260+ installations and find out that we've got problems and have to remove and reinstall, along with purchasing 260+ licenses.
Charles L Crane Agency
St. Louis, MO

Offline Jeff Golas

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Re: O365 and Epic 2017 - MSI vs Click to Run
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2018, 10:16:12 pm »
I'm still not sure what the problem is...the installs should technically be the same and we have no issues running Epic and the C2R installed version of Office.
Jeff Golas
Johnson, Kendall & Johnson, Inc. :: Newtown, PA
Epic Online w/CSR24
http://www.jkj.com

Offline sboehm

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Re: O365 and Epic 2017 - MSI vs Click to Run
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2018, 10:31:35 am »
You would think they'd be the same, but they're not.

The biggest difference is patching and upgrade ability is no longer controlled locally on the C2R. Features and security patches are added by MS which could break the Office/Epic flow and we'd have no control or way of rolling them back.

Besides that is the cost difference. We're just starting this project and had everything mapped out based on O365 E3 licensing. If we have to purchase volume license to get the MSI, which Applied insists we use, the price of this project skyrockets. We've been up and down the ladder at Applied and they're not budging on the MSI vs C2R.

We're working jointly with Applied and MS on this now so I'll let you know what the conclusion is.   

I'm still not sure what the problem is...the installs should technically be the same and we have no issues running Epic and the C2R installed version of Office.
Charles L Crane Agency
St. Louis, MO

Offline Jeff Golas

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Re: O365 and Epic 2017 - MSI vs Click to Run
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2018, 01:25:04 pm »
Pretty sure applied's only interaction with the Office products is via COM api's, which are unlikely to have any major changes.

Again - we use Click2Run across the board, with 50 some Epic users since 2015, no issues. The automatic patching part is the nicest part of it. (There have been occasional "breaks" and bad updates, since it IS Microsoft, but I'd rather deal with that than dealing with manually patching Office on 100 computers).
Jeff Golas
Johnson, Kendall & Johnson, Inc. :: Newtown, PA
Epic Online w/CSR24
http://www.jkj.com

Offline Mark

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Re: O365 and Epic 2017 - MSI vs Click to Run
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2018, 01:34:41 pm »
I just wanted to add that C2R and not using it was a commonly discussed topic at conference this past year.  We're a volume customer, so it was mostly in one ear and out the other for me.
Mark Piontek, MBA
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Offline Jeff Golas

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Re: O365 and Epic 2017 - MSI vs Click to Run
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2018, 01:36:02 pm »
We are Applied - please do things the 1999 way so we can keep up - thanks!
Jeff Golas
Johnson, Kendall & Johnson, Inc. :: Newtown, PA
Epic Online w/CSR24
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Offline sboehm

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Re: O365 and Epic 2017 - MSI vs Click to Run
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2018, 03:37:20 pm »
 ;D ;D I'm starting to realize this in my converstations with them about the subject.

We are Applied - please do things the 1999 way so we can keep up - thanks!
Charles L Crane Agency
St. Louis, MO

Offline Jeff Golas

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Re: O365 and Epic 2017 - MSI vs Click to Run
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2018, 10:29:59 am »
Was there any final result to this?
Jeff Golas
Johnson, Kendall & Johnson, Inc. :: Newtown, PA
Epic Online w/CSR24
http://www.jkj.com

Offline Tom Fisher

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Re: O365 and Epic 2017 - MSI vs Click to Run
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2019, 10:09:32 am »
Curious as to how this went down or didnt?
Tom Fisher
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