The power cord-seriously?

[DebAmstutz]

When I arrived at work this morning, the server was stuck on the local backup (again!) and so I pushed the reset button because that's what I have done several times in the past to get the server restarted after the backup stalled.  This time, the server was asking for a boot disk and we don't have one.  I called the tech guy and left voicemail.  He didn't call back and someone else called at around 7:30am.  She called him again shortly after 8:00 and he finally answered.  He came over and said that it looked like the hard drive was gone.  He took the side off the server and everything looked good, he reset some of the items inside and at one point, the server would no longer even turn on.  There had been thunderstorms in the area over the weekend, but nothing looked fried...no singeing anywhere, and no bad odors either, so he didn't think there had been a lightning strike or huge power surge.  He then found another power cord, plugged it into the wall socket and computer and voila! it booted right up! 

Is it possible for a power cord that rarely even gets moved to go bad?  He wondered if the battery backup might have had something to do with the server behavior, but the indicator lights on the backup were all okay.  I'm glad it wasn't something major, but what would cause a problem with an ordinary power cord?  Even he said it was extremely strange.

[Jeff Zylstra]

When I arrived at work this morning, the server was stuck on the local backup (again!) and so I pushed the reset button because that's what I have done several times in the past to get the server restarted after the backup stalled.  This time, the server was asking for a boot disk and we don't have one.  I called the tech guy and left voicemail.  He didn't call back and someone else called at around 7:30am.  She called him again shortly after 8:00 and he finally answered.  He came over and said that it looked like the hard drive was gone.  He took the side off the server and everything looked good, he reset some of the items inside and at one point, the server would no longer even turn on.  There had been thunderstorms in the area over the weekend, but nothing looked fried...no singeing anywhere, and no bad odors either, so he didn't think there had been a lightning strike or huge power surge.  He then found another power cord, plugged it into the wall socket and computer and voila! it booted right up! 

Is it possible for a power cord that rarely even gets moved to go bad?  He wondered if the battery backup might have had something to do with the server behavior, but the indicator lights on the backup were all okay.  I'm glad it wasn't something major, but what would cause a problem with an ordinary power cord?  Even he said it was extremely strange.

I doubt it was the power cord, but I suppose it is possible.  I had a monitor that would freeze up, and all I could do was unplug it to reset it.  The arcing of unplugging wrecked the cord eventually, but I think what happened with your server was that it did not fully release the power (and bad juju) until it was unplugged for much longer than you thought it should take.

Just as troubling is the fact that your backup is freezing the system.  You really need to find out exactly what is going on and why.  I would get someone on that pronto!  Event viewer may be helpful there.  If not, running some of the SysInternals utilities before backup may help as well.

Regardless of what you find, I would definitely do a CHKDSK on your server drives to check and repair any damage since it sounds like this may even be a contributor to the backup locking up.  The other thing would be to run a utility to check all of the hardware components and make sure you don't have a bad RAM chip, video, network card, etc....   Your tech guys may want to update BIOS, video, and network card drivers while they're working on the system. 

You're lucky you didn't lose the hard drives and data without a recent, good backup.  You just can't have your backups failing.  You just got a second chance at life. Your tech guys should be all over this.

P.S.  You may even want to run out and get a USB hard drive to copy the Applied and other data to so you have a recent, good backup.  Even if you don't use the backup software.  The operating system can be rebuilt (ugly but possible).  The TAM and other data can't be.

[Mark]

I've experienced a bad power cord on two or three occasions that i can recall, however the symptoms did not quite match what you experienced.

[DebAmstutz]

One would think that the tech would be all over this but I really don't know.  The owner is aware that the backups have not been 100%.  They rarely tell me anything about what's going on with the tech stuff so maybe there's a plan in the works to fix the backup problem.  I just thought it was really odd.

[Jan Regnier]

Is it possible that the actual power supply is going bad rather than the cord itself?  My personal computer just had this happen and it fried the power cord at the connecting end to the computer.  I don't know how long it had been "going bad" - but I didn't really have any "symptoms" prior it the cord getting fried. 

[Jeff Golas]

Sometimes the power supplies can get "confused" and not output correctly until its reboot - ie "unplugged". I've seen that with PC power supplies, but moreso with laptop power bricks. It does happen.

[Mark]

Sometimes the power supplies can get "confused" and not output correctly until its reboot - ie "unplugged". I've seen that with PC power supplies, but moreso with laptop power bricks. It does happen.

Correct, and you often need to wait for the capacitors to "drain" before reapplying power.  They can hold a charge for a while and they are an integral part of the power supply circuit.

[Jeff Zylstra]

Sometimes the power supplies can get "confused" and not output correctly until its reboot - ie "unplugged". I've seen that with PC power supplies, but moreso with laptop power bricks. It does happen.

Correct, and you often need to wait for the capacitors to "drain" before reapplying power.  They can hold a charge for a while and they are an integral part of the power supply circuit.

Exactly.  This happens with everything, including computerized appliances.  Last month a hawk hit the power lines near our house and blew out the transformer.  When the power came back on, our refrigerator had an error code that I couldn't clear, even after unplugging the frig for 10 minutes.  After three attempts I gave up and called a repair guy for an estimate.  Over $500 for the board to be replaced!  Since it cooled, but wouldn't make ice or dispense water, I procrastinated.  Good thing.  After 3 weeks it suddenly started working normally again!  Yee-ha!  Lesson learned.  I am going to install a surge suppressor outlet so this doesn't happen again.  Leviton makes one for about $20 at Home Depot that I am installing. 

[Mark]

It is also the exact reason why you wait for the light on a motherboard to go out after unplugging a computer and before working on it.

[Jeff Zylstra]

It is also the exact reason why you wait for the light on a motherboard to go out after unplugging a computer and before working on it.

Yup.  I have a Dell Laptop that says it won't recognize the battery and therefore won't charge the battery.  Supposedly, taking the batter out while holding down the power switch "clears" the error.  No joy so far after numerous attempts.  Anyone have a fix for this? (I had to ask  )

[Mark]

Yup.  I have a Dell Laptop that says it won't recognize the battery and therefore won't charge the battery.  Supposedly, taking the batter out while holding down the power switch "clears" the error.  No joy so far after numerous attempts.  Anyone have a fix for this? (I had to ask  )

Yep.  Warranty repair/exchange.  If it's out of that window, replace.  I have seen people spend money replacing batteries and power adapters over and over to remedy this with no joy.  Today's laptops are not worth a damn.  Whether you paid $200 or $2,000 I say expect it to last from 1-3 years and price wont always get you a lengthier life than that but I would hope if you pay $2,000 it lasts the full 3 I am predicting.

Of course my only source on this is experience, but that is what I have observed over the last few years.  Problems outside of battery/power issues I think is the luck of the draw, but what you have to consider is that heat kills.  If the battery is not charging properly or the power supply/adapter not performing as it should, this can create heat which can harm more than just the power related circuitry.

IDK, just the way I look at it.

[Jeff Golas]

That $20 surge suppressor is going to have 59 cents worth of actual surge suppression technology. 2 little parts called "Varistors" - at a certain number of Joules/Watts they blow apart like a fuse. They don't do anything to actually suppress a surge unless its a BIG surge.

For example, going from say, 115v to 130v will not do anything to them.

Jeff

Sometimes the power supplies can get "confused" and not output correctly until its reboot - ie "unplugged". I've seen that with PC power supplies, but moreso with laptop power bricks. It does happen.

Correct, and you often need to wait for the capacitors to "drain" before reapplying power.  They can hold a charge for a while and they are an integral part of the power supply circuit.

Exactly.  This happens with everything, including computerized appliances.  Last month a hawk hit the power lines near our house and blew out the transformer.  When the power came back on, our refrigerator had an error code that I couldn't clear, even after unplugging the frig for 10 minutes.  After three attempts I gave up and called a repair guy for an estimate.  Over $500 for the board to be replaced!  Since it cooled, but wouldn't make ice or dispense water, I procrastinated.  Good thing.  After 3 weeks it suddenly started working normally again!  Yee-ha!  Lesson learned.  I am going to install a surge suppressor outlet so this doesn't happen again.  Leviton makes one for about $20 at Home Depot that I am installing.

[Billy Welsh]

That $20 surge suppressor is going to have 59 cents worth of actual surge suppression technology. 2 little parts called "Varistors" - at a certain number of Joules/Watts they blow apart like a fuse. They don't do anything to actually suppress a surge unless its a BIG surge.

For example, going from say, 115v to 130v will not do anything to them.

Jeff

Sometimes the power supplies can get "confused" and not output correctly until its reboot - ie "unplugged". I've seen that with PC power supplies, but moreso with laptop power bricks. It does happen.

Correct, and you often need to wait for the capacitors to "drain" before reapplying power.  They can hold a charge for a while and they are an integral part of the power supply circuit.

Exactly.  This happens with everything, including computerized appliances.  Last month a hawk hit the power lines near our house and blew out the transformer.  When the power came back on, our refrigerator had an error code that I couldn't clear, even after unplugging the frig for 10 minutes.  After three attempts I gave up and called a repair guy for an estimate.  Over $500 for the board to be replaced!  Since it cooled, but wouldn't make ice or dispense water, I procrastinated.  Good thing.  After 3 weeks it suddenly started working normally again!  Yee-ha!  Lesson learned.  I am going to install a surge suppressor outlet so this doesn't happen again.  Leviton makes one for about $20 at Home Depot that I am installing.

So Jeff G., what do you recommend?  I've had 2 cheap LCD tv's from Sam's get fried power supplies from surges.  I'm getting what I paid for with the cheap parts installed, but it's a hassle I'd like to avoid in the future.

[Jeff Zylstra]

Exactly.  Not sure at the specs on these, but I figure that they're better than nothing.   I've heard claims that momentary surges of several hundred volts are more common than you would guess.  It's those frequent surges that worry me more.  I'm not sure that anything is going to handle a direct lightning strike, regardless of what the "$25,000 of insurance" says on APC or other surge suppressors.   They are definitely designed to be sacrificial.  That's why I'm bummed that these didn't have indicator or warning alarm to show that they were working or not.  Leviton does make both warning lights and alarms on these.  Not sure they're 100% or even 90% effective, but something is better than nothing.  These refrigerators are getting to expensive and too sensitive to go without some kind of protection.

That $20 surge suppressor is going to have 59 cents worth of actual surge suppression technology. 2 little parts called "Varistors" - at a certain number of Joules/Watts they blow apart like a fuse. They don't do anything to actually suppress a surge unless its a BIG surge.

For example, going from say, 115v to 130v will not do anything to them.

Jeff

Sometimes the power supplies can get "confused" and not output correctly until its reboot - ie "unplugged". I've seen that with PC power supplies, but moreso with laptop power bricks. It does happen.

Correct, and you often need to wait for the capacitors to "drain" before reapplying power.  They can hold a charge for a while and they are an integral part of the power supply circuit.

Exactly.  This happens with everything, including computerized appliances.  Last month a hawk hit the power lines near our house and blew out the transformer.  When the power came back on, our refrigerator had an error code that I couldn't clear, even after unplugging the frig for 10 minutes.  After three attempts I gave up and called a repair guy for an estimate.  Over $500 for the board to be replaced!  Since it cooled, but wouldn't make ice or dispense water, I procrastinated.  Good thing.  After 3 weeks it suddenly started working normally again!  Yee-ha!  Lesson learned.  I am going to install a surge suppressor outlet so this doesn't happen again.  Leviton makes one for about $20 at Home Depot that I am installing.

[Jim Jensen]

Heard a story yesterday that the LG refrigerators have a fuse that can provide protection to the unit, but it's soldered in place and service techs apparently recommend replacing the fridge when it goes out because its difficult to get to and isn't simply easily removed and replaced.

[DebAmstutz]

I thought technology was supposed to make life easier - seems like it's had the opposite effect!   

[Jeff Zylstra]

I thought technology was supposed to make life easier - seems like it's had the opposite effect!   

Yes, some of the requirements of the new "green" energy efficient refrigerators makes it so they don't last nearly as long, and also makes them more expensive to repair.   I hate things that have planned obsolescence built into them. 

[Billy Welsh]

I thought technology was supposed to make life easier - seems like it's had the opposite effect!   

Yes, some of the requirements of the new "green" energy efficient refrigerators makes it so they don't last nearly as long, and also makes them more expensive to repair.   I hate things that have planned obsolescence built into them.

Not to mention STUPID design decisions.  A fuse to protect your expensive fridge from surges?  Great idea.  Making it next to impossible to change?  What's the point of it then???

[Mark]

Not to mention STUPID design decisions.  A fuse to protect your expensive fridge from surges?  Great idea.  Making it next to impossible to change?  What's the point of it then???

A fuse?  Why not a breaker??  Think it would make too much sense.

[DebAmstutz]

I have a cousin who has been an auto/truck mechanic for years and he says if the people who design car/truck engines had to work on them, they'd be a lot less complicated and the parts that wear out the fastest or the ones with potential to be problematic would be easiest to get to under the hood.

[Jeff Zylstra]

I have a cousin who has been an auto/truck mechanic for years and he says if the people who design car/truck engines had to work on them, they'd be a lot less complicated and the parts that wear out the fastest or the ones with potential to be problematic would be easiest to get to under the hood.

Having been a mechanic, I can agree with that.  Unfortunately, the people who design things often have an accounting background, or motivation to their designs.  I always enjoyed it when you had to lift the engine up in a car to change a spark plug or change a serpentine belt.  That comes because the bodies are dropped onto the chasis after the engine and all its components are already in place.  I'm sure they've been cussed out by the mechanics at their dealership many times, but it's probably cheaper do it this way and money talks.

[Joshua Conner]

I have never had a power cord go bad in fact I rarely change the cord when users get a new pc.  Maybe cords arent made like the used to be so since I am using cords from the early 90's they are better 

[Mark]

I have never had a power cord go bad in fact I rarely change the cord when users get a new pc.  Maybe cords arent made like the used to be so since I am using cords from the early 90's they are better 

I don't think it's very common and it is probably more common if/when part of the cord is stressed.  i.e. pulled in and out a lot, or squished against a wall.

I'll admit I was astonished the first time I realized a power cord was actually bad.  Like, extension cords and lamp cords, etc have been around forever... why/how/wtf do computer power cords go bad.  What gives? lol

Edit: Actually, I bet what goes "bad" is the female end and the connectors aren't making full contact.  Who knows.  Only seen it a couple times.  Now, Ethernet cable -- that's a different story.

[Jeff Golas]

So Jeff G., what do you recommend?  I've had 2 cheap LCD tv's from Sam's get fried power supplies from surges.  I'm getting what I paid for with the cheap parts installed, but it's a hassle I'd like to avoid in the future.

Get a more expensive surge suppressor...preferably some decent brand like APC but something that you know has more than 2 parts in it. Prob gonna cost at least $40+ for something decent, if you're plugging good stuff in. I use a cheapo on my TV at home but I also turn it off whenever a storm rolls through now.

Here's examples of those cheapo surge suppressors and how the varistors fail: http://www.djsociety.org/Surge_1.htm

(Note the 6th picture down on the right - despite the varistors being cut comment, notice how many more parts THAT unit has over the others? Thats an APC surge suppressor that I know as prob around $40.) I've seen one first hand that was ballooned out from the varistors popping like popcorn, but whatever was plugged into that strip were the only appliances in the house to survive. A car hit a pole and shorted the phases...220 into 110 outlets :-)

PS - most electronics have varistors built into them as well.

[DebAmstutz]

After the power cord incident, now we have another problem that is supposed to be looked at by the IT guy tonight.  Several times over the last few weeks, the server has had a message on it in the morning regarding using a boot disk.  It was in the process of restarting when this message came up.  I'm sorry I don't have the exact verbage.  I had copied it off the screen on Friday and after calling the IT guy, reading him the message, following his directions and plugging the server into a different wall socket, it started up okay and I threw the note away.  The same message was on the server this morning and I tried various power sockets, left the server turned off for 5 minutes, left it turned off for 10 minutes, and it would always get that boot disk message when I turned it back on.  The IT guy came over with a new power supply and THAT didn't work either.  Somehow, he did get the server started up, but is coming back again after 5:00pm to see if this boot disk nonsense can be remedied.  Has anyone ever encountered this problem?  If so, how did you fix it?  I could leave a note with suggestions for him.

[Mark]

How old is the server?  Without seeing exact error messages, it sounds like it could be anything from a simple misconfiguration (less likely since it worked before) to hard disks going bad (possibly more likely).  Not sure exactly why the power supply is involved, but it's probably that your IT guy already knows something about the cause.

[Jeff Zylstra]

It wouldn't hurt to run a chkdsk on the drive(s).  Also, he may want to replace the BIOS battery, re-seat the RAM and give it a good cleaning while he's got the case off.  My bet is that one of the drivers is going bad, however. 

Now is a good time to make sure that you have working backups, and that you have a boot disk and/or "emergency disk" to boot from in case you need it.

[DebAmstutz]

The server is from March of 2013 so it's fairly new.  Would disks or drivers go bad this soon? 

[Jeff Zylstra]

The server is from March of 2013 so it's fairly new.  Would disks or drivers go bad this soon?

Hard drives can go "boom" at any time, regardless of age.  Have you looked at the Windows event viewer logs yet?  There may be something leading up to this error that may be helpful.

[DebAmstutz]

I don't think I'm supposed to be looking at the event logs, so I will leave those alone.  I have been shown very few things in regard to the server.  It's too bad.  If I have good directions, I can follow them and get things done, or at least try to determine what's going wrong.  My workstation has never had the problems that other peoples' have had.  The "box" for it still has a CD-ROM drive AND a floppy drive.  All that I know has been done is to add RAM.  There's nothing much on it except what's needed for my job, so nothing much else affects it, and it runs pretty well.  I did download FireFox in order to be able to access the online bank account because PNC upgraded their website and it didn't like IE8 anymore.  Most of us are also still on XP, but that is going to have to change one of these days.

[Jeff Golas]

Drives can go bad...but I sincerely would hope that they would use SOME kind of raid on it and not just a single OS drive.

Another possibility is that it may need a firmware update for the disk controller...sometimes there's certain delays that modern things need to boot properly and the firmwares get tweaked to allow for the proper delays. Stuff can boot so fast that the disks don't get a chance to initialize.

Event logs would certainly show any kind of disk errors, and you wouldn't hurt anything by looking at them. Right click Start Button, go to Computer Management, and expand the event log category on the left, then look under Windows Logs > Application Log or System Log (system is the better one to check).

[DebAmstutz]

Thanks, Jeff!

[Mark]

Completely agree with Jeff G!

[Jeff Zylstra]

Another possibility is that it may need a firmware update for the disk controller...sometimes there's certain delays that modern things need to boot properly and the firmwares get tweaked to allow for the proper delays. Stuff can boot so fast that the disks don't get a chance to initialize.

Sage advice.  But I wouldn't let the tech work on your server's disk controller without a good backup, regardless of what he/she says.  I did that once in the dark ages of RAID, and it rendered the data unreadable.  The phone support tech said it was safe and no problem to do the upgrade (for him maybe) but I had to do a restore.   

I also liked your comment about the delays.  I have a Windows service that I had to set to "start with a delay" because it would check for something before DNS was even operational, and would error out all the time.  You'll find these warnings in the Event Log - System log.  It's an easy fix if that's the case.

[DebAmstutz]

I have the invoice from the IT guy and it says he updated firmware on server motherboard and raid controller to fix the boot problems.  It hasn't crapped out anymore, so it appears to have fixed whatever was causing the problem.

[Jeff Golas]

I LOVE IT WHEN I'M RIGHT!