New Computer Specs

[Jeff Zylstra]

Just wondering what everyone's thoughts on new computers is these days.  Thinking of ordering a few new Dell machines, and I'm wondering if Dell is still the most viable option, and also which model and processor to get.  Thinking of the 7010 Optiplex machines with the Intel I-5 processors.  Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Jan Regnier]

The last three machine upgrades we have done have been machines built by our local computer service.  (he used to work for Applied when they had a hardware division!) We just replaced all of our machines last fall and he went with the Intel CPU Corei5 4GB DDR3 memory - Windows 7 Prof 32 bit.  Running TAM  11.1 Build 4

[Mark]

I'd probably go with the I5, & 6GB of RAM with 64bit Windows 7.

[Jeff Zylstra]

Are we sure that Windows 7 64 bit is completely kosher with TAM?  Also, just wondering what version of Office to get, since everyone wants to sell you the latest and greatest version of Office.  Is it possible to get an older version of Office, but then get a "coupon" or something for the newer versions at a reasonable cost? 

Do I even want to mention Windows 8 and how Applied is handling that?  A visit from Conan and his Applied support crystal ball would certainly be welcomed right now!

[Billy Welsh]

We have been going with the Open Licenses for Office as needs have dictated purchasing a copy for a new EE or PC.  This allows you to run older versions (back to 2003 last time we did it).

Costs a bit more, but it is not OEM that dies with PC, and we have the added flexibility as far as the version we choose to run.

[Jan Regnier]

We are using Office 2010 (had Office 2003)  Applied has a Compatibility chart. The last one I printed indicates Terminal Server OS WinServer 2008 64 is compatible and (Non-TS) WinServer 2003 64 is not.

[Mark]

We do same as Billy.  I have TAM working on a 2008 R2 Sp1 terminal server, so it should be working just fine on Windows 7 64 bit (have tested already).

[DebAmstutz]

Here is what the local computer tech just did for one of the CSRs (don't ask me what anything means, I'm just typing this off the invoice):

Dell Vostro 260 MT mini tower computer, Intel i#-2120 Processor (3.3Ghz), 4GB DDR3 1600Mhz memory, 500 MB hard drive, 16X DVD+RW, HD2500 video, Gigabit Ethernet, keyboard, mouse, Windows 7 Professional 32-bit.  Intel Solid-State Drive 520 Series, 120 GB, SATA-600, 2.5" x 1/8H, NCQ, 550 MBps (read)/520 MBps (write), MLC, 5-year warranty.

[Mark]

interesting.  I see two hard drives... for a CSR?  And, why 500GB for a workstation? smallest he could get?  The 120Gb by itself should have been good enough.

Must be missing something.

[Jeff Zylstra]

Just wondering if an electronic hard drive is really necessary/beneficial in a workstation, or if it is too expensive to gain much benefit? 

[Mark]

Just wondering if an electronic hard drive is really necessary/beneficial in a workstation, or if it is too expensive to gain much benefit?

  All drives are "electronic", Jeff.  but maybe you meant solid state.  Yes, I'd put a solid state drive in a workstation.  Mark Cote has been raving about his since he did it.  Less than 30 seconds from power up to being on his desktop and ready to go.  They are fast.

[Jeff Zylstra]

Just wondering if an electronic hard drive is really necessary/beneficial in a workstation, or if it is too expensive to gain much benefit?

  All drives are "electronic", Jeff.  but maybe you meant solid state.  Yes, I'd put a solid state drive in a workstation.  Mark Cote has been raving about his since he did it.  Less than 30 seconds from power up to being on his desktop and ready to go.  They are fast.

OK, wiseguy - you KNEW what I meant! Your brain will get there some day too!

[Mark]

OK, wiseguy - you KNEW what I meant! Your brain will get there some day too!

  Trust me, it's close enough... might as well be there already.

[Bob]

We do same as Billy.  I have TAM working on a 2008 R2 Sp1 terminal server, so it should be working just fine on Windows 7 64 bit (have tested already).

Exactly what were migrating too in future.   Doing this with several products so we have a cost per employee..  Make it easier adding/removing employees setting them up.

[Gene Foraker]

I just ordered 3 of the Dell / Applied configurations before the end of the year.    No real customization allowed and only 32 bit Win7.    Still, it was a decent discount.

Otherwise, I usually get locally built machines with good parts.   Unfortunately, the local shop went out of business this year after the owner died.

I am still thinking about Office.   Outlook 2003 comes with my SBS Server 2003 and most personal CSR's don't use Excel so I just may buy Word alone.   I even bet Open Office may work fine for the Excel clone.

[Billy Welsh]

interesting.  I see two hard drives... for a CSR?  And, why 500GB for a workstation? smallest he could get?  The 120Gb by itself should have been good enough.

Must be missing something.

Could be one "hybrid" drive - they are combining SSD with regular drives, putting the OS and other "critical, often accessed" data on the SSD for better boot/response time.

[Jeff Zylstra]

interesting.  I see two hard drives... for a CSR?  And, why 500GB for a workstation? smallest he could get?  The 120Gb by itself should have been good enough.

Must be missing something.

Could be one "hybrid" drive - they are combining SSD with regular drives, putting the OS and other "critical, often accessed" data on the SSD for better boot/response time.

Billy, how'd you know what my next question was going to be?   I'm going to guess that the "Dell Recommended" drive below is exactly that?  And if that is the case, would you recommend that drive?

3.5 Hard Drives
         
250GB 3.5" SATA 6Gb/s with 8MB DataBurst Cache™ [subtract $204.10]
      
500GB 3.5 6.0Gb/s SATA with 16MB DataBurst Cache™ [subtract $191.10]
         
1TB 3.5" SATA 6Gb/s with 32MB DataBurst Cache™ [subtract $181.35]
   
   2.5 Hard Drives
            
320GB 2.5 SATA 3.0Gb/s with 16MB DataBurst Cache™ [subtract $180.05]
         
500GB 2.5 3Gb/s SATA with 16MB DataBurst Cache™ [subtract $150.80]
         
500GB Hybrid 2.5" 3.0Gb/s SATA2 with 4GB SLC NAND Flash [subtract $119.60]
   Dell Recommended
         
320GB 2.5" SATA 3Gb/s Opal SED w/FIPS, 512e Hard Drive [subtract $167.05]
         
128GB 2.5" SATA 6Gb/s Dell Solid State Drive [Included in Price]


By the way, the Dell rep. said that the on board video on the Optiplex 7010 supported dual video cards, and that ALL of their video cards now supported dual videos.  Is that true of all video cards now?  I'm feeling like I'm falling behind again.  Just wait until I post asking about which smart phone to buy!

[Billy Welsh]

That has to be what Dell is recommending.

Personally, given the lower risk of failure + the performance gains, the next time we are buying I will opt for a smaller SSD at the same price as a 500GB standard or hybrid drive.  We are NEVER going to use 500GB on a workstation, so I will ignore $ per GB and focus on $ per likely used GB.  And its getting harder to find standard drives that are not too big.

[Jeff Zylstra]

That has to be what Dell is recommending.

Personally, given the lower risk of failure + the performance gains, the next time we are buying I will opt for a smaller SSD at the same price as a 500GB standard or hybrid drive.  We are NEVER going to use 500GB on a workstation, so I will ignore $ per GB and focus on $ per likely used GB.  And its getting harder to find standard drives that are not too big.

All this talk makes me wonder if it is still possible or advisable to install large programs on a secondary hard drive.  My wife have numerous card programs, I-Tunes, and other space hogs on our computer at home.  I'm wondering the feasibility of changing the drive letter during the install procedure so that these programs install on a large, secondary drive so I can keep a smaller SSD drive for reasonable performance.  Is that possible or advisable?

[Mark]

Is that possible or advisable?

Possible? Yes.

[Jeff Zylstra]

Is that possible or advisable?

Possible? Yes.

Now aren't you the wiseguy today!  So you're saying this is not advisable because of performance issues, or data and/or installation corruption issues?  Just what ARE you saying!

[Conan_Ward]

I don't see why it'd be an issue, if you don't need the performance boost of a SSD, a large storage disk would be the way to go. I'm running a terrible contraption with 3 internals of various sizes/ages and an external at home and it's ok, the standard disk utilities in windows seem to keep things in line.

on hybrids real quick: got one for free recently (seagate 500gb) i'm not noticing anything huge running programs off of it, but i'm too lazy to move the OS onto it. The charts I've seen do indicate it does pick up a slight benefit to boot times and what not, but nothing near a pure SSD. The recommended use of keeping them to laptops sounds about right...in a desktop machine, I wouldn't go with the half measure. A ssd for programs/os and traditional for storage (if needed) is the way to go. If it wasn't free, i'd feel ripped off

[Mark]

Now aren't you the wiseguy today!  So you're saying this is not advisable because of performance issues, or data and/or installation corruption issues?  Just what ARE you saying!

LOL, I just don't have enough experience with these drives to expand on it.  What I CAN say is that I have been installing things to drives other than C for decades, for one reason or another.

For example, I would install Exchange onto a partition other than the OS for performance reasons.  I suspect that woudl be the same thing with an SSD and a non-SSD setup.  Files and what not could be stored on the non-SSD and anything that you want fast access to on the SSD.  just can't speak from experience yet.  Make sense?

[Gene Foraker]

The accepted practice for power users is now to have an SSD boot drive along with a large "data" drive.   Install important programs to the SSD to gain its speed, but not the media data such as music, photos or video since they don't need the speed.

[Jeff Zylstra]

Makes perfect sense.  Thanks, Gentlemen!

[Jim Jensen]

Very interesting to learn - thanks for starting this discussion. Helps us non-dedicated techs keep up.

[Jeff Zylstra]

Very interesting to learn - thanks for starting this discussion. Helps us non-dedicated techs keep up.

That's what this forum is all about!  I can't possibly keep up anymore, so I rely on those of you who can or do keep up.  Sharing the information is the only way that us non-dedicated IT people have of keeping up. 

I am interested in these "hybrid" drives, as to how they work and how fast and reliable they are, etc...

[Conan_Ward]

I've got the 500gb version of this: http://www.anandtech.com/show/3734/seagates-momentus-xt-review-finally-a-good-hybrid-hdd

Short answer on the chart, it puts the performance almost directly between a ssd and traditional drive and a price point to match. Since the ssd portion in this case is really a cache, it's probably more reliable than a traditional ssd for long term worries about the ssd read/write limits over the lifetime.

[Bob]

Not followed thread but thought I would read through it.  To answer Jeff, absolutely nothing wrong with custom installing apps vs. default install to C:, changing the installation path to another drive.   I've done this as long as I can remember.  I've always installed large apps on spare drive and I keep the C: drive for common things OS, Office, things essential to operating use.   Games, iTunes, photo library, anything non-essential on spare drive. 

Most all apps have option to install defaults or custom.  I always choose custom and change the install path.

Regarding using solid state drive vs. typical drive.  Average person is not going to care really.   SSD would be quicker but with speed on PC's only as fast as the slowest part/bottleneck gets moved to another point.   I've not used SSD based system so who am I to talk.