UPS with AVR recommendations?

[Hans Manhave]

An APC unit bit the dust.  Not the battery, the electronics.  A new one is $165 at Sam's Club.  I have not been extremely pleased with APC models, but they appear better than some others.  However, they may all have been brave soldiers and died for the turf they protected.

Anyone have any recommendations for a unit that provides protection for a dual screen Optiplex?  Voltage regulation (AVR) is a must.  Battery backup of some capacity also.  We live in the dark area of the country where the sun shines, but the power doesn't last all day.  I was aiming for a $100 limit per unit.

[Bob]

Since you live in an area like Pakistan where power is unreliable.

I recommend kinetic energy model like this.



American made too!  Can't go wrong..

[Billy Welsh]

I like APC's trade-in program.  Free shipping to recycle the old unit, and their prices are not that out of line considering you don't have to find a way to properly dispose of/recycle the lead batteries.

It is not prominent on their site, but if you search for trade-in or trade-up you can find it.

[Jeff Zylstra]

An APC unit bit the dust.  Not the battery, the electronics.  A new one is $165 at Sam's Club.  I have not been extremely pleased with APC models, but they appear better than some others.  However, they may all have been brave soldiers and died for the turf they protected.

Anyone have any recommendations for a unit that provides protection for a dual screen Optiplex?  Voltage regulation (AVR) is a must.  Battery backup of some capacity also.  We live in the dark area of the country where the sun shines, but the power doesn't last all day.  I was aiming for a $100 limit per unit.

You are correct in considering these to be "sacrificial" units.  There is absolutely no way to stand up to lightning strikes or even power surges on a long term basis.  The better ones offer quicker response and can handle more and more intense surges, but they all dies at some point. 

I like a dual layer approach.  I have a surge suppressor on the main electrical panel, which only clamps voltage at something like 600 volts or so.  I want to say it was $300 or so.  Then I use the APC units inside for a finer voltage regulation.  I think I allow a 6-8 volt swing either way on the APC units.  That sounds like a lot, but most units don't allow much finer regulation than that, otherwise they would be kicking in all of the time as the air conditioner turns on, or other power drains occur.  A well designed power distribution panel is very helpful in this regard.  In other words, put high drain electrical appliances on their own circuits so they don't affect other appliances on the same circuits. 

There are websites that rank these things, but I sometimes think that they split hairs a bit.

[Hans Manhave]

I am considering this from the Dell site: http://goo.gl/RlHii

[Gene Foraker]

I think APC seems to own the marlet.  I like the Smart UPS line.    The batteries seem to only last me 3 years, though.   Usually Amazon has replacements about 1/2 the cost as from APC.

[Marie (Zionkowski) Gozikowski]

We have a mix of Cyberpower and APC units... both seem to last about the same.  We have bad electric/wiring here, so I usually have to replace one or two a year.  Tried Tripp Lite for a while... was not happy with those at all.

You can get a CyberPower CP1350AVRLCD on Amazon for $130, and an 850AVRLCD for $106

[Jeff Zylstra]

I think APC seems to own the marlet.  I like the Smart UPS line.    The batteries seem to only last me 3 years, though.   Usually Amazon has replacements about 1/2 the cost as from APC.

If you need batteries in a hurry, Batteries Plus usually stocks most if not all of the UPS batteries, and they seem to be pretty reasonable.  But you may or may not have a Batteries Plus around, depending on what size town you live in.

[Jim Jensen]

I bought my last couple at the office supply store - OfficeMax, I think. BestBuy carries some from APC as well.

[Hans Manhave]

For replacement batteries I go to the Interstate Battery retail outlet.  They appear to have everything.  A replacement battery was $40, the unit in question is a XS1300 which took 2 batteries.  Then we learned that the unit itself had gone bad, not the batteries.  Will keep the new batteries because they can be used as single units in other models too. 

CP800AVR units have been ordered.

Has anyone heard of anyone ever filing on the $150K or $200K coverage of these kind of units?  Even when there is a real $100K+ claim, the insurance adjuster doesn't mention anything about filing it elsewhere.  Is that just window dressing or secondary coverage?

[Bloody Jack Kidd]

If you are running a UPS with AVR, turn the sensitivity down - most PC power supplies can handle some voltage changes without damage. All that trim and boost work is likely what is killing your UPSes.

[Jeff Zylstra]

If you are running a UPS with AVR, turn the sensitivity down - most PC power supplies can handle some voltage changes without damage. All that trim and boost work is likely what is killing your UPSes.

BJK has hit the nail on the head.  If you have a generator or plan on getting one, you will need to adjust these settings to be less sensitive.  Otherwise, the UPS will "protect" the attached computer by not accepting the power of the generator and the UPS will stay on battery power forever. 

Most of the APC units have this adjustment, and you can adjust the settings by connecting the UPS (using the provided customized USB cable) to a computer that has the free "power chute" software installed.  I'm not familiar with other units, but I would assume that they have a very similar arrangement as well.  If you see a USB or serial connection on the UPS, there's a good chance that your UPS has adjustments like this.  You can also monitor the condition/charge state of the batteries through this software.

[Hans Manhave]

That brings up the monitoring issue.  Does it require expensive units to have this centrally monitored?  I don't want to make the end user responsible for monitoring.  With "expensive" I mean that one has to pay an additonal $49 - $100 or more per station to get this accomplished.  I find the voltage drop over an 8 hour work day to be significant (20% or better).  A generator has been cost prohibitive.  In case of extended outage we all have personal generators that we have brought in.  A whole external wiring harness was set up which remains in storage normally.  On a positive note, we do have a propane barbecue in the office patio lunch area that we can use to cook!  There are sufficient squirrels, coons and possums to keep us from starving if things were bad.

[Jeff Zylstra]

That brings up the monitoring issue.  Does it require expensive units to have this centrally monitored?  I don't want to make the end user responsible for monitoring.  With "expensive" I mean that one has to pay an additonal $49 - $100 or more per station to get this accomplished.  I find the voltage drop over an 8 hour work day to be significant (20% or better).  A generator has been cost prohibitive.  In case of extended outage we all have personal generators that we have brought in.  A whole external wiring harness was set up which remains in storage normally.  On a positive note, we do have a propane barbecue in the office patio lunch area that we can use to cook!  There are sufficient squirrels, coons and possums to keep us from starving if things were bad.

Over 20%?  That seems a little high to me.  Your power provider can put what looks like an EKG or oscilloscope on your power to monitor voltage fluctuations.  It prints out on paper like an EKG, and measures intensity (voltage in this case) fluctuations over a period of time.  A certain amount is acceptable, but if it is too great, your public service commission will get after the power company and make them do something to rectify the issues.  Our office is a ways off from the road and we were having these fluctuations when we moved in.  They put the monitoring device on our line and determined that there was too much voltage drop because of the distance from the transformer on the pole, and our meter.  They ended up putting a transformer right outside our back door, which solved the problem.   If they refuse or give you a hard time, then call your public service commission.  Utility companies hate dealing with these folks, so they're usually cooperative.  HTH.

[Alice Mooney]

I've always used APC UPSes, but now a bit nervous about it.  Last month, the two yr old one I had, the battery practically exploded in the case. The alarm was constant but not very loud. If I was not home it could have started a fire b/c when I opened up the case, the plastic around the battery was starting to melt.
I did not get to the unit right away when the alarm started because I was in the shower and didn't hear it. So it could have been sounding for up to 20 minutes.
Was very scary.

[Hans Manhave]

Over 20%?

The device has been deployed over some period of time before.  Didn't help.  Circuitbreaker boxes were rebalanced, that helped some.  Breakerbox surge protectors were installed (Siemens TPS 200,000rms), also took care of some events.  Then the transformer was moved (that 7,000 volt feeder) to be closer to our intake.  That helped also.  The voltage drop happens over the 8 hour work period, over time.  Start at 122 or 123v and slowly drop from there until it starts going back up again in the evening.  All these changes have taken care of the computer power supply failures as far as I can tell.  None of it has protected us from a lightning strike and completely wiping out everything though.

[Jeff Zylstra]

The daytime power drop makes me wonder if you're in an industrial area and your neighbors are heavy users of electricity.  We have a tool and die place about a block away, and when they fire up their 100 ton punch press, it can cause problems.  My other guess is that it could be heat related.  Heat causes a vicious circle of resistance to the flow of electricity which causes even more heat.  The fact that it comes back however, makes me think that it's your neighbors on the same line that is causing it.

As far as protecting from a lightning strike, that's not possible.  The best you can do is to give the electricity a more enticing place to go than the power grid in your building.  A shorter path to ground.  If you have enough problems with this, call an expert on this.  They may suggest putting lightning arrestors on the building, or fixing or adding more ground points to your electrical panel. 

Bad grounds can also cause voltage issues, by the way.  Everyone thinks about checking the load or "hot" side of circuits, but not necessarily the neutral side of the circuits.  The neutral returns electricity to balance the voltage in a circuit.  If there is resistance of some kind in that side of the circuit (lose wires or corrosion), it could cause strange problems like this.   

[Jeff Zylstra]

I've always used APC UPSes, but now a bit nervous about it.  Last month, the two yr old one I had, the battery practically exploded in the case. The alarm was constant but not very loud. If I was not home it could have started a fire b/c when I opened up the case, the plastic around the battery was starting to melt.
I did not get to the unit right away when the alarm started because I was in the shower and didn't hear it. So it could have been sounding for up to 20 minutes.
Was very scary.

I use APC units almost exclusively, but I have thrown away 2 units over the years because of this same issue.  It does make me nervous, but I always thought it was the batteries shorting out that caused it.  I would be interested to see if anyone has experienced this in other brands of units.

[Billy Welsh]

I have heard of fires started by Tripp-Lite, so I've always stuck with APC.

No fires for us (knock-on-wood).  Only trouble over the years has been the occasional unit that kicks off a constant alarm that cannot be silenced.  Have one at home right now with that issue.  Usually from bad/old batteries.

I can understand the non-stop alarm on a server unit; not on a workstation/pc.  My smoke detectors won't even do that unless there is an actual fire.

[Bloody Jack Kidd]

I have run PowerWare, Eaton, Tripp-lite, Belkin, Dell and APC. I stick with APC for the most part, but that little 300VA PowerWare unit outlasted everything. I only got rid of it because 300VA just doesn't give enough runtime.

[Hans Manhave]

A Tripplite unit let a lightning strike destroy the server hard drive in 1990 or 91.  They were very easy to work with at that time to get a new UPS unit.  It was a 90MB formatted drive.  We recovered.  Moved to a new building (so it didn't strike twice in the same spot) in 1993 and a lightning strike in 2010 knocked everything out (including the transformer) except for a few work stations.  No lights were affected either.  Lightning is not friendly.  We are on a main business (retail) artery, but just our power comes from the residential area behind us. 

I have replaced APC units' batteries that were next to impossible to get out because they were bulging.  I have also had them go bad (APC XS-1500) without notice.  Just, "hello, replace batteries now" and then in 60 seconds the unit was dead until batteries were replaced.

This latest APC unit, no notice from the hardware, immediate unit failure.  I replaced the batteries which gave one more day.  The smell of melting capacitors is a distinct smell I remember from my youth.  I do not care to ever smell that.  This particular unit must have had some of its electronics overheat, not nice.  Researching possible replacements and the accompanying reviews showed quite a few occurrences of (contained) fire from different brands.

[Bloody Jack Kidd]

one thing worth mentioning WRT lighting - unless your equipment is isolated all external cabling, or all external cabling is filtered/protected - lightning can often strike through a backdoor.

[Jeff Zylstra]

Interestingly enough, about an hour and a half ago, our power went out for about 30 seconds.  Certainly long enough for the generator to kick on (it didn't  ), and long enough to test the UPS units.  I found that the UPS in the utility room that powers my network has an "issue".  It's been pulled and is awaiting a battery.  I will also be bringing my laptop in tomorrow to connect to each and every UPS in the building to check their batteries, and also their settings to make sure that they're working properly.  Unless these things have Ethernet connections and IP addresses or MACs, I'm not sure if it's possible to universally monitor them.  I guess that manually checking them  is something that I should do at least twice a year.  Lesson learned.

[Billy Welsh]

one thing worth mentioning WRT lighting - unless your equipment is isolated all external cabling, or all external cabling is filtered/protected - lightning can often strike through a backdoor.

Lost some ip phones & a LAN switch a few months back this way.  Lightning surge went through phone lines or jumped to CAT5 after hitting building.

[Bloody Jack Kidd]

one thing worth mentioning WRT lighting - unless your equipment is isolated all external cabling, or all external cabling is filtered/protected - lightning can often strike through a backdoor.

Lost some ip phones & a LAN switch a few months back this way.  Lightning surge went through phone lines or jumped to CAT5 after hitting building.

excellent example

[Billy Welsh]

Oh yeah, also damaged postage meter.  Which means it was through phone lines, as the meter was only connected to a phone line at the time.  Only the internal modem/lan card was damaged otherwise I might point to electrical system as it is not on a surge protector.

So it whacked the ip phones and LAN switch through the CAT5 going from the PBX to the LAN.  The PBX itself was unharmed - go figure!