Help with Dell 1209S Projector

Billy Welsh · October 25, 2011, 11:30:38 AM

My son's Scout organization is having an issue with their Dell projector. A few weeks back they were using it for a movie and the screen went blank in the middle of it, and the bulb indicator came on. They turned it off for a while, then tried it again and it worked for a while before the same thing happened again.

They purchased a new bulb, but that does not seem to solve anything - now when you turn it on with either the old or new bulb, it goes through what seems like a normal POST, then shuts itself down and does 2 or 3 more POSTs before shutting down completely and lighting the bulb indicator light. I never get any light out of the lens during these POSTs. I do get the fan running.

It is out of warranty so Dell was no help. I am hoping one of you guys have run into something similar and can shed some light.

TIA!

Jeff Zylstra · October 25, 2011, 11:37:24 AM

Almost sounds like it's "protecting" itself from too much heat. Is there any kind of reset button anywhere? And can you tell if it's getting input signal?

Billy Welsh · October 25, 2011, 12:19:22 PM

I do not see a reset button. There is a temp warning lamp but it does not light up.

I found a Google hit in the Dell forums for a different model # but which points to a capacitor issue. Seems right on point. And sadly it seems to be a common problem.

Jeff Zylstra · October 25, 2011, 12:32:30 PM

That makes sense. The capacitor stores a lot of power and discharges all at once to compensate for the increased need for power to initially light the bulb, then the power supply take over after that. I'd try a electronics or TV repair place. You'd be surprised at what those guys can fix, and they probably have a capacitor on hand or can easily get one.

Jim Jensen · October 25, 2011, 02:38:17 PM

Check the see if the fan screen needs to be cleaned to allow better ventilation and check to see if the bulb usage timer was reset when the new one was installed. One of our projectors at church kept get warning signals that we were able to get rid of by resetting the bulb clock until we got a new one.

If those don't work, scouts are supposed by resourceful, try sitting on a block of ice while using it to keep it cooler.

Jeff Golas · October 26, 2011, 12:26:17 AM

Best bet would be to try to find a parts unit on Ebay or something and swap the ballast board. I couldn't find any articles mentioning a board level repair.

Billy Welsh · October 26, 2011, 09:44:00 AM

http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/peripherals/f/317/p/19277056/19642282.aspx

Jeff Golas · October 26, 2011, 01:14:24 PM

Ah huh...and to think I have a bajillion 3300uf caps laying around (prob just a hair too big though).

How good are you with soldering? Where are you located?

Billy Welsh · October 26, 2011, 02:41:31 PM

I am way down yonder in New Orleans.

I can muddle my way through soldering copper pipes; I am not very confident on a circuit board.

At the moment I am pursuing the other Jeff's original suggestion of an electronics shop. They have 2 months or so before the next meeting where they will need it, and we have loaners available (including one from my agency).

Jan Regnier · October 26, 2011, 03:05:14 PM

Billy - do you know any HAM radio operators? My dad used to build all of his own equipment - if you know someone who does the same - soldering would be easy for him/her...and knowledge of "electronics" would probably be pretty good.

Jeff Golas · October 26, 2011, 03:21:34 PM

Look up a guy named Bob Roberts...if you email him, I'm sure he can send you to someone local that can fix it on the cheap. He is sort of a retired electronics legend in the coin-op world and lives right in N'awlins. Tell him one of his customers referred you even though its not really a coin up related thing.

(He sells parts like capacitors, etc)

Jeff

Quote from: Billy Welsh on October 26, 2011, 02:41:31 PM
I am way down yonder in New Orleans.

I can muddle my way through soldering copper pipes; I am not very confident on a circuit board.

At the moment I am pursuing the other Jeff's original suggestion of an electronics shop. They have 2 months or so before the next meeting where they will need it, and we have loaners available (including one from my agency).

Gene Foraker · October 26, 2011, 03:33:49 PM

Soldering electronics is way different than soldering a pipe. You need a different solder as well as an iron of the right wattage. It is not a difficult skill to learn, though. I bet radio shack has a brochure or small book on it.

I built my first shortwave receiver when I was 11 or 12.

Jeff Zylstra · October 27, 2011, 09:30:32 AM

Many here have probably soldered copper pipe. The trick with that is to "pull" the solder into the joint. Since solder flows toward the heat, all you need is heat and a clean and relatively tight fitting joint.

The trick with soldering electrical is getting the right amount of heat without frying the plastic circuit board and/or other components around what you're soldering. Almost like "dropping" solder on the joint. There are clamps and shields that you can buy to protect from and direct the heat, but if you're not comfortable with doing this, it's better to get an estimate from someone who will stand behind it if they screw things up.

Jeff Golas · October 27, 2011, 12:20:46 PM

The bigger problem is with taking it apart - you may need some fine torx bits and nut drivers to get to where the cap is.

The biggest problem with more modern electronics is the fact that the boards are double sided - technically each leg of the cap is in a "through hole", which may connect to traces on both the bottom and the top of the board. If you can't desolder it properly or try prying it out, you can damage the through hole and break connection to traces. In addition, VERY new electronics, or anything that says "ROHS compliant" on it uses lead-free solder which apparently is a b--- to work on and takes a LOT of heat to solder. This sounds fancy but honestly anyone can do it.

I used to use cheapo soldering irons, crap solder, etc and butchered everything I worked on. Now I have a higher end ($100) soldering iron, slightly higher end desoldering device (Hakko 808 - $250) and I now know it wasn't me screwing up all those years. I can desolder 40 pin chips off a board and have them fall into my hand.

That said for one fix you don't need $300 worth of soldering gear...some desoldering braid, a low wattage iron and a little patience. Using a low wattage iron from Rat shack will help from burning the board, and if you're that concern, just grab the first piece of older electronics you find next to a trash can and have at it. Try removing some parts and then soldering them back in. (Just beware if its a TV the tube may still be charged).

Billy Welsh · October 27, 2011, 01:43:30 PM

Quote from: Jeff Golas on October 26, 2011, 03:21:34 PM
Look up a guy named Bob Roberts...if you email him, I'm sure he can send you to someone local that can fix it on the cheap. He is sort of a retired electronics legend in the coin-op world and lives right in N'awlins. Tell him one of his customers referred you even though its not really a coin up related thing.

(He sells parts like capacitors, etc)

Jeff

Found him - thanks! http://therealbobroberts.net/parts.html

Jeff Golas · October 27, 2011, 01:45:56 PM

Thats him!

Jeff Zylstra · October 27, 2011, 03:09:51 PM

Quote from: Jeff Golas on October 26, 2011, 03:21:34 PM
Look up a guy named Bob Roberts...if you email him, I'm sure he can send you to someone local that can fix it on the cheap. He is sort of a retired electronics legend in the coin-op world and lives right in N'awlins. Tell him one of his customers referred you even though its not really a coin up related thing.

(He sells parts like capacitors, etc)

Jeff

Why does this sound like a Jimmy Buffet song?

Gene Foraker · October 28, 2011, 11:38:35 AM

Quote from: Jeff Zylstra on October 27, 2011, 09:30:32 AM

The trick with soldering electrical is getting the right amount of heat without frying the plastic circuit board and/or other components around what you're soldering. Almost like "dropping" solder on the joint.

Yikes! That is a bad analogy. Nothing like dropping solder on the joint. That will guarantee a bad connection. You have to never touch the solder to the iron to melt it but heat the joint enough to melt and absorb the solder.

Jeff Zylstra · October 28, 2011, 11:46:50 AM

Quote from: Gene Foraker on October 28, 2011, 11:38:35 AM
Quote from: Jeff Zylstra on October 27, 2011, 09:30:32 AM

The trick with soldering electrical is getting the right amount of heat without frying the plastic circuit board and/or other components around what you're soldering. Almost like "dropping" solder on the joint.

Yikes! That is a bad analogy. Nothing like dropping solder on the joint. That will guarantee a bad connection. You have to never touch the solder to the iron to melt it but heat the joint enough to melt and absorb the solder.

It is a bad analogy. You really have to apply some serious heat to a plumbing joint compared to an electrical connection. Applying that same amount of heat would result in total destruction of the components which is what I meant to say. Sorry for the confusion.

Jim Jensen · October 28, 2011, 02:22:07 PM

I can roast a brass & copper connection quite fully, so probably best to keep me away from circuit board soldering.

I helped a plumber one day, using MAPP gas instead of propane, which I was used to using. MAPP is much hotter - roasted the copper so hot it wouldn't bond with the solder. You gotta move fast with MAPP gas.

Jeff Zylstra · October 28, 2011, 04:04:54 PM

Quote from: Jim Jensen on October 28, 2011, 02:22:07 PM
I can roast a brass & copper connection quite fully, so probably best to keep me away from circuit board soldering.

I helped a plumber one day, using MAPP gas instead of propane, which I was used to using. MAPP is much hotter - roasted the copper so hot it wouldn't bond with the solder. You gotta move fast with MAPP gas.

I was having trouble soldering a shower valve in place, so I went out to get some MAPP gas for the additional heat. It turned out that the shutoff valve wasn't seating fully, and the pipe still had water in it. Once I drained the pipe and stuck a chunk of bread in the pipe to block any residual water, it worked fine.