Could TAM Online work for us?

[Heather Reetz]

We currently use several terminal servers that most log into, and about a dozen workstations.  We are on Office 2003.  We use FaxPress (not fax @vantage).  We use eTFile for both TAM and another database program that is accessed from a Terminal Server.

We are on a very old version of TAM and I am not involved in upgrading anymore.  The person currently in that position is attracted to the idea of TAM Online.

What should we watch out for?  Are there any situations in which this is a bad idea?

Opinions?  Ideas?

[Jim Jensen]

Take the time to compute the actual cost difference. Consider that TamOnline doesn't offer you the option of staying on a particular version for a while (I mention this since you've stayed on 7.x for so long). Learn about the workflows for attaching scanned items or the integration with eTFile. I don't know about the integration factor, but if you want to attach scanned items directly in TAM, you have to upload the files first to a holding area, then attach them (not saying it's a problem, but different and some don't like it). Email is handled differently, too. It sounds that you will still need an in-house server, so the savings purported by Applied for TamOnline will not apply nearly as much.

[Gene Foraker]

The advantages I can think of for you, off the top of my head:

1.  You will solve your problem of upgrading and keeping on a current version.
2.  Your backups will be rock solid dependable and disaster recovery is simplified.
3.  Your Microsoft Office will be upgraded as part of the charge.
4.  Your multiple TS servers will be not necessary.

Disadvantages:

1.  Total cost will be much higher than even having an outside consultant like Nick handle the same things for you.
2   If you ever decide to leave Applied, your data will not reside with you.   Applied likes this very much.
3.  TAM Online was not designed to use with your current fax and imaging programs.   This may cause complications if you wish to keep them.
4.  You don't have the option of sitting out an upgrade, though I think this is highly overrated for most users without special problems.

[Jeff Zylstra]

And to add to Gene's list - when the internet is down, TAM Online is down.   This makes having redundant internet connections a bit more important and adds more expense.  And you still have to have in house servers to host your SQL or other 3rd party database applications anyways, so what's one more server to run TAM?  As has been said here a lot lately, there's no application that's simpler to host on a server than TAM.

A word of caution...  It sounds like someone over there is questioning whether or not they can or want to handle TAM on in house systems.  They should be careful what they ask for.  Some CEOs/CFOs get the idea that if they go with a hosted online solution they can cut out or cut back on IT support.  Tell your friend that he/she may be putting themselves out of a job!

[Lance Bateman]

Another one - print uses "screwdrivers" (don't ask, maybe the programmers were at the local bar?), and sometimes they stop working and have to be reinstalled.

As others have said, since you have other 3rd party programs you may want to keep, will still need local server(s) and support.

Current versions of TAM are much easier to install - haven't had major database redos within 10.x.  Not sure about if/when 11.x comes out.

[GeorgeW]

We use screwdrivers for all our citrix/terminal servers and also our sister company that uses TAMOnline. 99% of the time just logging off and back on will restore the printers. Rarely do we have to reinstall screwdrivers.   

Since I am in a position that supports users with our inhouse TAM and TAMOnline, I can tell you I personally dislike TAMOnline...you can't even right click in Windows Explorer, which drives me crazy!! Then the problem of not having access to your local drives, so you have to upload (or email) things to TAMOnline so that you can attach them. The scanning process is slower. As others have said, TAM is updated to the newest version whenever Applied decides, you have no choice. TAMOnline cost almosts as much per year as our inhouse TAM and we have almost 4 times as many user licenses inhouse. Just a few things that popped into my head.   Oh, on the plus side for the users, I don't believe anything is blocked on the internet. Our users that have to use both systems found that out quickly and so just do all their internet browsing in TAMOnline.

[Heather Reetz]

Here's another question, related and not...

Upgrading TAM, but keeping it local:

In what version does the Word Viewer upgrade?  What does it upgrade to?

Also, I'm hearing that eTFile will no longer work after a certain TAM version.  Is that true?  Will we have to abandon eTFile if we want to get current on TAM?  If so, will we be able to import our attached images?  What about our other database?

[Mark Rowe]

Also, I'm hearing that eTFile will no longer work after a certain TAM version.  Is that true?  Will we have to abandon eTFile if we want to get current on TAM?  If so, will we be able to import our attached images?  What about our other database?

Where did you hear that about etfile?  That would be news to me. We're on 10.4 and still using it.

[Heather Reetz]

Mark, that is great to hear!    

I heard it from someone who heard it from someone so... I was hoping that was a load of hooey.


(Oh, and if you're on 10.4, you need to update your sig.)

[Mark Rowe]

Mark, that is great to hear!    

I heard it from someone who heard it from someone so... I was hoping that was a load of hooey.


(Oh, and if you're on 10.4, you need to update your sig.)

Guess I lied. I'm on 10.3

[Bob]

Load 10.7!

[Heather Reetz]

Load 10.7!

Who?  Why?

[Bob]

Pretty stable and supports Windows 7.

[Heather Reetz]

What version is Word Viewer? 

[Bob]

Not sure but either 2003 or 2007 viewer.  It will install when you run asupdate on the workstations.

[Jim Jensen]

Not sure but either 2003 or 2007 viewer.  It will install when you run asupdate on the workstations.

It's 2003, but there's no cost and Bob's right, installation will be done as part of the process of updating the workstations. I was advised by Applied that when updating, you should run ASUPDATE on each station when you finished x.0 installation, before going to the next one. I don't know what versions they will tell you step through, but if you install 8.0, then run asupdate, when you get to 9.0 do the same, then again at 10.0 and of course whichever you stop with 10.4 or 10.7. I skipped that step on 10.0 because and I had conflicts with some stations because it missed installing some new files that the x.0 version installs, but the later ones don't install. WordViewer could be included with that.

[Mike]

I am bringing this topic back up as my partners and myself are having a dispute - they want TAM ONLINE and I have reservations as per this earlier posting - but since this posting is a year old, have  concerns changed?

Keeping in mind we are in Canada........ should  we be concerned about...........

- disaster planning? I think this is obvious, but after last week's tornadoes in the USA or an ice storm that could shut us down for several weeks, what do you think about this? (I now have a backup generator that powers the building as long as the building exists). The server is in this building.

- security concerns - we have the privacy act in Ontario - any comments whether security should be an issue since the USA has different legislation than Ontario?

- would TAM online really make the user a beta tester? We beta tested version "3" if you can imagine and then swore we would be the last 3rd in on new versions after that experience!

- what about backups? (I am a little nervous thinking the backups could be in the possession of someone somewhere with TAM online)

- if you have several offices, would you allow then to have a different version of TAM?

Thanks.

[Lance Bateman]

One thing to be aware of - on TAMOnline you have no control over upgrades to versions.  When they want to move you to 11.1, you are moved.  (This is one of my issues, as releases are so buggy when they are fully released).  As to offices being on different releases - the only thing I know is that if they are serviced through different locations (I don't know if this happens for a national agency or not) - the locations for the servers don't always go to the newest release at the same date.

[Jeff Zylstra]

If you have either agency procedures or department procedures that depend on TAM functioning in a certain way you may not like the lack of version control. 

I don't know if there are speed issues or not with TAM Online, but there are certainly internet access dependencies as there are with any cloud software setup.  No internet - no access to TAM.  If you're e-filed or transactionally filed in any way, you're up a creek without the internet.

[brinkerdana]

Mike, the responses you received are legitimate considerations to moving to TAMOnline. 

As for multiple offices, I believe they would all be on the same version and TOL server.

I don't see how many users you have.  You also don't mention if you have an in-house IT person.

TAMOnline requires a few extra key strokes for attaching, but otherwise acts just like your own TAM.  You'd also need to keep a server for 3rd party software, including Outlook.

[Jeff Zylstra]

Mike, the responses you received are legitimate considerations to moving to TAMOnline. 

As for multiple offices, I believe they would all be on the same version and TOL server.

I don't see how many users you have.  You also don't mention if you have an in-house IT person.

TAMOnline requires a few extra key strokes for attaching, but otherwise acts just like your own TAM.  You'd also need to keep a server for 3rd party software, including Outlook.

Dana brings up a couple of good points.  If you have an agency of 5 people, maybe TAM Online makes sense.  That said, you still will have to have a server for any third party software so until third party software is all stored on the cloud, you still have the expense and upkeep of a server, and the need to make backups.

[Ben Thoele]

Will you know where your data is?  Will you have control of your number one asset?  The current state of outsourced cloud hosting is about the same as the banking industry in the 1930s.  Outsourcers are telling businesses not to keep their data under your pillow but on the flip side once you outsource your data, you can't just withdrawal it.   We use outsourcing for things like spam filtering but these are services that I could drop in a matter of hours and switch if there was a problem.  I envision a private cloud where agencies have control of their data and can move services such as email, phones, and TAM from providers as they choose.   Think drop and drag your TAM app from Rackspace to Amazon because they aren't meeting your SLA's.
Let's let Applied Systems focus on what they do best which is write great software and provide great software support.  I always love when companies that want you to outsource aren't outsourcing services outside of their core mission.  Rack Space, Amazon and Applied Systems, great hosting providers.

[Jeff Zylstra]

Just saw this post pop up again after a while.  Data security has a lot to do with the financial solvency of the company who is hosting it as much as it does with company policies on ownership and accessing it.  My biggest fear is that one day they'd just shut down with little or no warning and you would never get a hold of anyone again.  I do NOT think that's a problem with Applied, obviously.  Another issue is accessing all of your attachments if you somehow switched systems.  Any vendor pretty much has you there.

I've spent several hours with TAM Online recently, and there are some latency issues.  Small things that you take for granted on the in-house version are a real pain on TOL.  Primarily, going back and forth between customer file and prospect files.  I don't know if it happens when switching between customer and say company files or vendor files.   It can take 5 minutes before the system becomes available again when switching between the two.  I don't know if that was an anomaly because I was helping move clients from prospect to customer, or if there was something wrong but it was extremely frustrating as the system would lock up for minutes at a time.  Even once both customer and prospect files were loaded, the same system hangs occurred when switching between customer and prospect, even if I waited 60 seconds or so for the system to write any changes to both files.   I couldn't put up with it, but maybe there's a work around to get more acceptable performance.

[Lance Bateman]

Another thing to consider - if you go TAMOnline, you lose control over software updates - if TAM releases a new one, it's upgraded, problems and all.  Personally, I tend to wait for the "brave ones" to plunge ahead and find the problems, and wait for an update to be installed until the fixes are in.